Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 172

Thread: I used to love the COP

  1. #136
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    If FS had a decent Tech Competition, we would see how well the points hold up. By 'decent', I mean let the skaters put out their 5 best jumps, 3 best spins, and the usual foot-work sequence, all of which should be done with out music.

    The Long Program should revert to the Free Program and let the skaters show us some art of figure skating with music, of course.

    Less restrictions, but more of the Skating Ability in all its forms.

  2. #137
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If FS had a decent Tech Competition, we would see how well the points hold up. By 'decent', I mean let the skaters put out their 5 best jumps, 3 best spins, and the usual foot-work sequence, all of which should be done with out music.
    I don't think that would draw the same TV audience that the current SP would, sadly, and that means it will never happen. Unfortunately, under the reign of Cinquanta, it seems like the most important factor in how skating is structured and scored is how it's going to affect the ISU's bottom line. Maybe we'd see something like this in the smaller internationals, but I can't ever see it happening for the GPF, Worlds, or Europeans.

  3. #138
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,100
    Wally Lutz. I wanted the quad to be rewarded more, but I never wanted a falling quad to get you 6 points. I think that's ridiculous. And I'm not sure I ever wanted 16 points for a quad, and if I did I'm sure other triples were to be raised.

    Frankly I've advocated before that GOE marks get moved especially for jumps to a percentage of the base value. And have the percentage be higher for failures. I don't even think a falling quad should get HALF. So if someone said -3 GOE equals 80% off the base value, that would ensure nobody would be racking up huge points falling.

  4. #139
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    430
    I think this would be a good idea. I'm sure everyone will read this and adopt my ideas.

    There should be more than two marks.
    1. Jumps. Add up all their jumping points. No limit.
    2. Spins and Footwork. Add that up. No limit.
    3. Transitions, edging and gliding without using improperly bending your knees or exerting any effort (apparently, what PC is the best at, according to the other thread). This should be a maximum of 20 points.

    4. Performance, playing a character, being entertaining, interpreting music. Subjective-but 10 points of subjectivity.

    5. Speed-5 points.

    6. Cleanliness. This should be set in stone. Set a maximum number of points, and then take off. Hand down-2. Two foot-1 Fall-3. And double the penalties in the short program. And here's the kicker. The judge can't use a computer to subtract the points. They can take points off for flutzing and other tiny mistakes for section 1, but the cleanliness portion is for mistakes seen with the naked eye. I would make this also 20 points.

    Judges could still manipulate the scores, of course, and P. Chan might still win. But it would be understandable.

  5. #140
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,829
    About partial credit for falling on a quad, I think I have found the correct sister-sport analogy -- trapeze.

    The flier completed four somersaults in the air, before falling fifty feet to his death. (He got silver posthumously.)

  6. #141
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Why can't it?
    I was trying to give the judges and/or the CoP the benefit of the doubt. But have it your way - ineffective judges working a flawed system equals disappointing results at Skate Canada.

  7. #142
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I was trying to give the judges and/or the CoP the benefit of the doubt. But have it your way - ineffective judges working a flawed system equals disappointing results at Skate Canada.
    Well, I think that's rather true. Regardless of my love for COP, the flaws in the system were in fact exacerbated by judging that I didn't care for.

  8. #143
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,681
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    About partial credit for falling on a quad, I think I have found the correct sister-sport analogy -- trapeze.

    The flier completed four somersaults in the air, before falling fifty feet to his death. (He got silver posthumously.)
    LOL!!! I just spent close to an hour reading through the last five pages and tring to figure out "my position" or questions or....and then, I read this....too funny

  9. #144
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,152
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Well, 2 years ago the value of triple axels and quads were raised a little from what they had been earlier, and also the value of negative GOEs for those elements was increased, so that successful quads in 2009 were worth more than they had been, but unsuccessful quads were not.
    Bingo. A fall on a Quad Toe should really only be worth a Triple Toe. Note that even if a skater rotates and falls, that would still often be better than if they had only done a Triple. No male plans a solo 3Toe in their program - it's a waste of points. For male programs, the 3Toe is exclusively a jump you do in combination. Tripling out on a planned Quad means you've not only gained far less points on that jumping pass but also hindered your program in terms of the Zayak rules. You may as well have just doubled out on the jump.

  10. #145
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by doubleflutz View Post
    I don't think that would draw the same TV audience that the current SP would, sadly, and that means it will never happen. Unfortunately, under the reign of Cinquanta, it seems like the most important factor in how skating is structured and scored is how it's going to affect the ISU's bottom line. Maybe we'd see something like this in the smaller internationals, but I can't ever see it happening for the GPF, Worlds, or Europeans.
    Absolutely correct. The ISU and its Federations need money to run these extravaganzas. A real tech competition will not sell to the public. The fans want their artsy craft with music. In the phase competition where Tech is supposed to be the most important, the elements are selected by a Committee and they are limited. They are rightfully judged by values but they do not cover the scope of the individual possibilities of displaying their Tech. Yet the Performance is Also judged and in many cases overrides the point of it being a Tech Competition.

    The Fans are eager for a nationality, costume, music and ballet-like arms to satisfy their art requirements.

    My take on ART would be that I would rather listen to great serious music in its entirey than the abridged versions of figure skating. However, I do enjoy the occasional skater who displays some artistry in an LP. Laura Lepisto has that quality, and even Patrick if he can just not fall.

  11. #146
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    My take on ART would be that I would rather listen to great serious music in its entirey than the abridged versions of figure skating. However, I do enjoy the occasional skater who displays some artistry in an LP. Laura Lepisto has that quality, and even Patrick if he can just not fall.
    Funny, I do not find artistry to be Laura Lepisto or Patrick Chan's strength. Laura Lepisto is pretty enough but she's got very stiff arms and back and she doesn't dance to the music. I appreciate Laura Lepisto for her GREAT SPEED when she skates though. Patrick Chan apparently has great SKATING SKILLS but he doesn't skate to the music nor is his facial expression all that artistic and it's not like he's a great dancer.

    But then, I guess artistry is subjective.

  12. #147
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    But then, I guess artistry is subjective.
    You got it, Hurrah. In ballet some say so-and-so has the best white swan. Some say what's-her-name has the best black swan. But which dancer has both?

  13. #148
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889

  14. #149
    Custom Title Phoenix347's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    661
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    About partial credit for falling on a quad, I think I have found the correct sister-sport analogy -- trapeze.

    The flier completed four somersaults in the air, before falling fifty feet to his death. (He got silver posthumously.)
    Is this a true story??

  15. #150
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Storybrooke, Maine
    Posts
    3,674
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I'm of the same opinion as Stephane. The idea of attaining the highest levels (4 on all elements) is mainly what has stripped figure skating of its freedom and beauty. It has forced the skaters to compromise quality for quantity, which is a real shame. COP would allow skaters more time to breathe and express their programs choreographically if they were not having to try and achieve a level 4 on everything. I vote to do away with the levels component of COP. BTW, these 2 are just so precious . . . I so love both Stephane and Shizuka, two beautiful and admirable ambassadors of this sport!
    Last edited by museksk8r; 11-04-2010 at 06:15 PM.

Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •