I used to love the COP | Page 9 | Golden Skate

I used to love the COP

doubleflutz

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Because there are elements besides the aspects you listed that are beautiful and unique about figure skating and has been there since the sport started. Just because you find certain aspects beautiful doesn't mean everyone who enjoys skating thinks that way.

Like what, hyperflexibility in spiral or spin positions? The ability to jump and rotate in the air, without a good take-off or landing edge? Choppy basic skating without any edges at all while being physically attractive? Doing any skating move while exceptionally physically attractive?
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
About partial credit for falling on a quad, I think I have found the correct sister-sport analogy -- trapeze.

The flier completed four somersaults in the air, before falling fifty feet to his death. (He got silver posthumously.)


I love your witty sense of humour, Mathman, the aforementioned had me in stitches yesterday, I honestly couldn't stop laughing. :laugh:

Which I really needed at the time after recalling how I felt about Zhenya's loss at the Olympics. Thanks for the laughs! :)
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Over a decade of watching skaters (most particularly the men) who could not spin, whose MITF were perfunctory, and whose footwork was effectively non-existent, was more than enough for me. Actually, I think assigning levels to elements has done more to advance the actual sport than anything that's happened since the removal of school figures.

To advance the TECHNICAL side of the sport, yes. Not the artistic side. Figure skating is both. Increasing technical and decreasing artistic doesn't mean you've gained anything overall. In fact, to many people it means you've LOST something, since the artistic mark was supposed to be the "tiebreaker".

Anyway, the debate is too limited to 6.0 vs CoP. What people should be talking about is how CoP needs to be improved. There needs to be more freedom, certainly. Look at how Lambiel and Shizuka, and pretty much any other top skater, is overwhelmingly in favor. And look at how Lambiel and Shizuka laugh at their own idea when they say "maybe we should tell the ISU and get it fixed." It's seriously disgraceful how sluggish the ISU is with responding and adapting. Even two of the most renowned skaters out there know they don't have much sway over influencing the awful leadership within ISU.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Pretty much all of Lambiel's significant victories came under some variant of COP, though,...

Victories, schmictories. Here is Stephane's all-time greatest performance, wide-swinging jump landings, level 2 spins and all, good for fourth place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRQVeaD2iu8

Well-executed skating, blades-on-ice skating, is beautiful.

True, but harder is not necessarily more beautiful.

I think one of the problems is that only skating experts can actually see things like changes of edges during spins, or can tell the difference between a Mohawk and a Choctaw. (GKelly once posted a "you be the judge" video about footwork, challenging us to identify as many steps and turns as we could. I got one right out of thirteen -- a twizzle. :) )

So what is beautiful to an expert is way over the head of 99 per cent of the audience.
 
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bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Well as for the change of edges, I can point out that Moskvina's husband asked what change of edges traditionally have to do with spinning. I remember Lambiel's fast well centered spins were breathtaking under 6.0.

They can easily reward spins, by having the judges grant points to the spins, with guidelines. Than the judges could look at beauty and difficulty. But also allowing frankly for at least more originality in the spins. We don't see a lot of original moves now.

Also I was thinking earlier about how new technical stuff isn't done anymore. What if a guy could do something like a four jump combo, but we will never see it.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Victories, schmictories. Here is Stephane's all-time greatest performance, wide-swinging jump landings, level 2 spins and all, good for fourth place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRQVeaD2iu8

Zabucca was great and all, but I disagree that it was his all-time greatest performance. His 2007 Poeta LP (here it is in its full HD-glory) is his greatest performance, bobbles at the end and all--and good enough for third place, albeit with a disastrous SP.

I know Lambiel has been vocal about his dislike for CoP, but to me, Lambiel's Poeta is proof that a CoP program can transcend the paint-by-numbers approach that so many skaters seem to embrace--and so many posters criticize--and instead be extraordinary.
 
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dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
I know Lambiel has been vocal about his dislike for CoP, but to me, Lambiel's Poeta is proof that a CoP program can transcend the paint-by-numbers approach that so many skaters seem to embrace--and so many posters criticize--and instead be extraordinary.

:love: Poeta! Glorious performance.

But Lambiel is a "residual" skater from 6.0. He straddles both eras.

The ideal of CoP is not that bad. Making figure skating judging transparent, that's good. What I object to is the mindset it gives growing skaters & coaches. The importance has shifted from skate to elements. By giving points to individual elements, breaking down the entirety of the skate, the CoP has fostered a myopic fixation on spin levels, GOE and BV. Skaters miss out on the whole picture... which is why I'm glad the SpSq has been removed. At least it no longer disrupts the actual programs. One small step for ISU.

This could be addessed if PCS was given out correctly. I wish judges actually cared about the performance, not a skater's international reputation, national federation push or successful completion of all elements. There's a big differene between a clean skate& an artstic, well-performed program.
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Some posters make a fuss about Tech yet they still want the schmaltz of performance which most of the time negates the Tech. The Tech needs its own competition without all the frilly stuff. A skater can slop up the required elements in the SP but still be held up in the PC scores to keep the skater alive. Of coursem that's only for an Elite skater who is experiencing a meltdown in the Tech.

Lambiel is a performer, arguably the best of the current crop. It's not a question of CoP or 6.0. He is his own man.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Lambiel said he is all for the tech in the SP. He said he wishes the LP had more freedom. The two programs are the same now.
I agree with Lambiel about this. It would be more interesting if the only difference in the two programs was not the duration.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
There is no better source but the skater to spot on the problems and the solution. I think if an athlete has an idea and says what has to be changed in the judging system, the best thing is to listen to him cause he is the one who suffers from any change they do.
 
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