Best Triple Lutz by a woman? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Best Triple Lutz by a woman?

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Another beautiful lutz from a long setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLbk5FKWesQ&p=599241BEDAD942A7&playnext=1&index=44

And for a skater who was so inconsistent with that particular jump, Hubert's sure was nice when she hit it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I9H-kjLU_Q

The reason the boys are doing a short setup is that they are sometimes choosing to do the lutz out of steps in the SP. Having a long glide gets you dinged for not being "out of steps."

So shall we look at some other examples from the boys?

Short setup from steps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZRhzcpyQ98

Longer glide showing the edge exiting the one preceding difficult step, when the SP rules still allowed for that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oziVC4CPnio

Most people would not deliberately waste time learning two different entries to the same jump if they didn't have to.

Unless they thought showing that variety would be worth something in itself, especially when repeating the lutz in the LP. Was that Kwan's motivation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHsorCH-690
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
The reason the boys are doing a short setup is that they are sometimes choosing to do the lutz out of steps in the SP. Having a long glide gets you dinged for not being "out of steps." Most people would not deliberately waste time learning two different entries to the same jump if they didn't have to. However, it's a fact that originally, the long glide was felt to be a requirement for a good lutz. That would be why Boitano used one, not because he couldn't do it the other way. Same for Tonya, who was in the same era.

The first guy I remember using lots of little steps into a lutz was Tim Goebel, and he did it to disguise that his outside edge on the lutz was not the strongest. And it's still being used that way today. If fact, if I had a persistent flutzing girl, I' might suggest the same thing to her.

There is nothing that shows a weak lutz edge like wiggling back and forth on it on a long glide.

Interesting. Well, not all skaters who use this shorter left-foot glide technique are flutzers. A lot of them have a pretty good lutz, actually, with a strong consistent outside edge. And gkelly pointed out an example of this different shorter glide technique from a much earlier time period (Scott Davis) long before Tim Goebel:

[...]

So shall we look at some other examples from the boys?

Short setup from steps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZRhzcpyQ98

[...]

I think CoP may have had more to do with forcing this change than simply hiding a flutz. Just look at all the girls today who flutz, how many of them use this shorter glide technique (very few from what I have seen)? How many of them still get caught anyways? On the other hand, before CoP even Yu-na used the original long glide:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZorwawmGIwQ&t=0m18s

Although after CoP was implemented she was consistently using the other technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FmncaNGLOI&t=3m08s

This shorter set-up technique allows for steps before the jump, which most men and some women use to their advantage under CoP.
 
Last edited:

doubleflutz

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Regards the triple lutz jump itself, I'm a traditionalist when it comes to this jump, and by that I mean I favor the long gliding edge going into it, which used to be the norm until this past decade when those that couldn't hold the proper edge shortened it, so now it makes it hard to distinguish at times from the triple flip. Big no-no from me. Bring back the loooong gliding edge, please, thank you. :)


I agree. Apart from the short take-off being a way of disguising a flutz or a weak edge, as Doris Pulaski pointed out, the aesthetics of the long glide are far more preferable most of the time, because it allows the unique entry and exit curves of the lutz to really stand out. That reverse "S" curve is one of the prettiest things in skating to me, and it's sad that even technically correct lutzes these days mostly just look like they're jumped in a traditional circle. It takes one of the more visually unique jumps, in terms of creating an interesting pattern of movement on the ice, and turns it into just another boring ugly toe jump. Ho-hum. Most of the time, the "footwork" preceding it isn't interesting or complicated enough to be worth the loss.
 

TtonyV7

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Tatiana Malinina had the most beautiful Triple Lutz. Huge, great height and distance, and wonderful flow. Just look at all her comps in 99.

Sebestyen had a classic Triple Lutz as well, especially when she did real footwork sequence into it.

Anna Rechino had a nice Lutz to when landed.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
I agree. Apart from the short take-off being a way of disguising a flutz or a weak edge, as Doris Pulaski pointed out, the aesthetics of the long glide are far more preferable most of the time, because it allows the unique entry and exit curves of the lutz to really stand out. That reverse "S" curve is one of the prettiest things in skating to me, and it's sad that even technically correct lutzes these days mostly just look like they're jumped in a traditional circle. It takes one of the more visually unique jumps, in terms of creating an interesting pattern of movement on the ice, and turns it into just another boring ugly toe jump. Ho-hum. Most of the time, the "footwork" preceding it isn't interesting or complicated enough to be worth the loss.

I hadn't realized this until reading your post - but I too miss this....I find myself now only looking at the foot (flip or lutz) and not the "whole picture" of the jump.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I tried to find that program on Youtube, but it seems not be there. But I do remember watching it before and it was great.

Yes, it was great, and, yes, I couldn't find it either, though I do have it on one of my old dinosaur VHS tapes (still haven't gotten around to transferring my old VHS tapes from the 70's/80's/90's/2000s onto DVD format yet). And I don't know if I ever will, lol, because I seriously have about 1000 of those dinosaur tapes. :(

As for the jump itself, I will not change my mind on the long gliding edge leading into it, I'm a purist/traditionalist after all. :) I stand with Sonja Henie, Gillis Grafstrom, and all the other f.s. greats from the past whom did it the way it was originally meant to be done, as introduced by Austrian skater Alois Lutz in 1913: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutz_jump

However, we all have differing opinions, as it should be, and I thank you all for allowing me to post mine without ridicule. :) Tolerance is the key to getting along with others after all.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I did not find Viktoria Volkova on youtube, but in my opinion she had the best triple lutz among women.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Volchkova had a lovely lutz edge going in, and great spring and height in the jump, but tended to land and stop short and always didn't have good glide out. She also was subject to nerves AFAIR, and fell a lot because of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjcR1IybLR4

Here's her LP from a COR that she won!
 

wonbinfan86

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
No, Michelle most certainly could not fall 3 times and win. Thankfully she has NEVER fallen 3 times in a competition, let alone a single performance. Those rankings are ridiculous. There is no doubt that Kwan was #1. I'm not sure why you are talking about falls when Kwan didn't even make a mistake in her performance. Her speed, edges, fluidity, expression, choreography, interpretation, spirals, and footwork were well beyond Ye-Bin Mok's. Anne Patrice McDonough and Jennifer Kirk over Michelle Kwan? LOL!!!!!!

Speed? MK is slower than Caroline Zhang at times, and in COP MK would be downgraded for her flagrant flutz (even worse than Sasha's), slow spins with uncreative positions, and recycling of the same choreography which makes her programs some of the most boring in recent memory. I did an objective COP calculation and Yebin's SP score comes out to around 68-69, Kwan to around 45-46.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Speed? MK is slower than Caroline Zhang at times, and in COP MK would be downgraded for her flagrant flutz (even worse than Sasha's), slow spins with uncreative positions, and recycling of the same choreography which makes her programs some of the most boring in recent memory. I did an objective COP calculation and Yebin's SP score comes out to around 68-69, Kwan to around 45-46.

It's like opposite day!

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
 
Top