Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 70

Thread: Ladies prospects

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    The bottom line here, for me, is the Tie Breaker for all those ladies with 26 points.

    It will be decided by the hghest scores given the skaters from Panels which vary from each other.

    There needs to be another method to break ties. Using scores from different Panels in UNFAIR.

    or just let all the 26s skate the Finals along with the 30s.

  2. #32
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    The bottom line for me is who will perform well at Natls and then perform well at Worlds. This GP stuff is quite secondary, no?
    Does anyone think Mao wants to win TEB - or is she concerned about winning a third WC

    Skating legacies are based on Worlds and Olympic results and have nothing to do with the pre-season aka the GP series.

  3. #33
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,330
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    The bottom line here, for me, is the Tie Breaker for all those ladies with 26 points.

    It will be decided by the hghest scores given the skaters from Panels which vary from each other.

    There needs to be another method to break ties. Using scores from different Panels in UNFAIR.

    or just let all the 26s skate the Finals along with the 30s.
    All of the ladies with 26 points are in.

    As far as I can see, there is no possible combination of placements for ladies at TEB that would necessitate looking at points to break ties.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan
    Does anyone think Mao wants to win TEB?
    I can't speak for Mao, but I hope she does. Why else does an athlete compete?

  4. #34
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,330
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Is that a rhetorical question - or are you really so "competitively challenged."
    The question was not intended to be rhetorical. If Mao is not competing to win, then what is she competing for? If you elect to participate in a competition then you should try to win, otherwise stay home.

    "For who and for what?" For your pride as an athlete and for the fans who paid their money to watch you compete. If you feel that a lesser competition, like the Nebelhorn Trophy, or perhaps NHK, is beneath you, then it is beneath you. Don't go.

    Is the Olympic motto "if your federation paid it's dues - and you are the 85th ranked skater in the world you have "earned a ticket to the Olympics/Worlds"?
    It's not the Olympic motto, but it is how the Olympics is run. Each national Olympic committee "pays its dues" and gets to send athletes to the Olympics, whether they are serious contenders for medals or not.

    What we have to keep in mind is that the ISU is an alliance of national federations. The national federations rule the roost. Yes, absolutely, if you pay your dues you get to send someone to Worlds. The only way to change this would be to disband the ISU and start over with a different kind of organization.

    The World Skating Federation in 2002 was an attempt at such a move. They failed because (a) they focused in legal challenges instead of on proving that they were capable of organizing and running competitions, and (b) the IOC staunchly backed the ISU -- Cinquanta was on the IOC board of directors at the time.

    Is the Grand Prix important? Well, "important" means "important to someone." I would say that winning a Grand Prix event (or even being selected to participate in one) is important to some skaters, not so important to others who have bigger fish to fry. That seems obvious.

    Still, Mao should try to skate her best. I would be disappointed if she just mailed in her performance with an IOU to try harder at Worlds.

    The GP series is merely a money making exhibition and is great because it pacifies those fans who like "pageant" type events while claiming to not like exhibition skating.
    Trophee Eric Bombard is more "pageant-like" than the Olympic Games?

    Bottom line, if you enter a skating competition, you should skate to win.
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-24-2010 at 05:38 PM.

  5. #35
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,801
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Bottom line, if you enter a skating competition, you should skate to win.
    I am unsure if that is the main motivator or goal for every skater who participates in a competition, however, especially someone as elite and accomplished as Mao.

    I get the feeling that Mao would like to win, but that her focus is more on trying out her programs and testing her progress. She was clearly not ready to compete at NHK, but she did so anyway. Her eye is either on Nationals, Worlds, or longer-term prospects, I would guess.

    So, as to the question, "Does Mao want to win TEB?" I assume, "not really, but it'd be nice."

  6. #36
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,330
    ^ Boo, phooey! Would Rocky Balboa enter the ring with the attitude, "well, it would be nice to win, but if I get b-slapped silly, that's OK. too?"

  7. #37
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,330
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan
    Doesn't it follow that if the GPF actually meant anything (besides makng money) that the finalists would be at Worlds?
    No.

    Why does that FACT go right over your head........?
    Because it is not a fact. It is an opinion. I am of a different opinion. I think it is possible for an event to "mean something" even if the "something that it means" is not related to the World championship.

    (By the way, I don't think the Grand Prix events make money for the ISU, except possibly NHK. I might be wrong about that, though.)

  8. #38
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    All of the ladies with 26 points are in.

    As far as I can see, there is no possible combination of placements for ladies at TEB that would necessitate looking at points to break ties.
    We have now one 30 (Ando)
    The 26s are Koster, Murikami, Flatt. If Czisny gets silver she joins the gang.

    That would make 5. so Phaneuf, Korpi, and Nagasu will battle for 20 points and one will get a slot at GP Final!
    If Czisny melts, we could get two.

    As to the contest, I dig the GPs. It is sort like a Round Robin which shows more than just one big SPLASH signifying nothing.
    Last edited by Joesitz; 11-24-2010 at 07:31 PM.

  9. #39
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,707
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If Mao wins TEB, Czisny will join the list of 26s if and only if she gets the silver.

    We have now one 30 (Ando)
    The 26s are Koster, Murikami, Flatt. If Czisny gets silver she joins the gang.

    That would make 5. so Phaneuf, Korpi, and Nagasu will battle for 20 points and one will get a slot at GP Final!

    As to the contest, I dig the GPs. It is sort like a Round Robin which shows more than just one big SPLASH signifying nothing.
    You forgot Suzuki. She got 26.
    But the 5 (Ando, Kostner, Murakami, Suzuki, and Flatt) are locked. All the gals with 26 points are in regardless of what will happen in Paris. The girls in Paris can kill each others for the last spot. Probably more interesting that way.

  10. #40
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    No.



    Because it is not a fact. It is an opinion. I am of a different opinion. I think it is possible for an event to "mean something" even if the "something that it means" is not related to the World championship.

    (By the way, I don't think the Grand Prix events make money for the ISU, except possibly NHK. I might be wrong about that, though.)
    Thanks, your opinion is fine and can't help thinking that you agree - the GP's are little more than exhibitions.
    Or if you have a different view you certainly did not make a case for it.

    The GP's are not related to Worlds and are much less significant to a skater's legacy.
    Nobody gives poop that Sasha won a GPF.
    What we remember and discuss is how such a talented skater never won Worlds or more Natl titles.

    The GP's, because they are not as important just are not thought of that way.
    They are fun, I like them, but I also like show skating.

  11. #41
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    886
    Anyone know about the status of some of the skaters' injuries/ potential for withdrawal? I know that Miki, Carolina, and Rachael are all injured -- I believe the one most susceptible to perhaps withdrawing is Miki, whose back looked rather worse for wear at COR. Carolina will most likely compete with the same watered-down jumping layout, and I've heard that Rachael is healing pretty well.

  12. #42
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,330
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Or if you have a different view you certainly did not make a case for it.
    That's the thing about opinions. You don't have to "make a case" for them. You just have them.

    To me, any competition can be important to the contestants and interesting to others. This is true even of contests that do not contribute to a person's legacy or to the number of Internet posts generated.

    I am not trying to convince you that you ought to care about who wins the Grand Prix Final. I still hope that Mao wins TEB, with Alissa at least third. Hopes, like opinions, do not have to be defended, justified, or argued about.

    I also think that if you enter a competition you should do your best. (Since that statement has the judgmental "should" in it, I suppose it would be better to say, "I admire most those athletes who always strive to do their best.")
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-24-2010 at 07:59 PM.

  13. #43
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,549
    If Czisny stands up she should Podium.



    If I had 10 million dollars, I'd be rich.

  14. #44
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    1. One can enter a competition with a variety of goals, can't they? I think one of Mao's goals is to win. Virtue and Moir are Olympic Champions, so they can look down on the GP season, right? But when interviewed, they came right out and stated that one of their goals was "to win everything." Reigning bronze medalists (at the time) in pairs, Robin Szolkowy said the same thing heading into the 2007/2008 season. Just because there are more prestigious competitions out there (no one's arguing that the Olympics is more prestigious than Trophee Eric Bompard) doesn't mean that people don't want to win.

    2. But in many respects, victory isn't everything. Sometimes it's getting your programs out there in the competitive environment to see what you need to improve (again, V/M basically improved at every single competition last season, and that was because of the competitive mileage they got out of TEB, SC, GPF etc). I cannot imagine Mao not wanting to win TEB. I think Lena Marrocco wants to win TEB despite not standing a chance - I'd be very surprised if a competitor existed that didn't want to win. But I don't think she'd view the failure to win as an ultimate failure or something - not if her performance was a marked improvement from NHK. I also don't think she views losing the Olympics as the ultimate failure either, fwiw.

    3. I don't believe that the GP season is a glorifed pageant at all (no more so than figure skating in general, anyway). We certainly can't predict Worlds based on it (the last GPF winner to win worlds? For the ladies -Slutskaya.), and I don't think it's as prestigious compared to Worlds/Olympics, but calling it a glorifed pageant is definitely too much.

  15. #45
    nefertiti..reincarnate
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    865
    I think ImaginaryPogue has summed this quite well.
    No intention to further OT the subject but just for curiosity, which do you guys think is more prestigeous and important, 4CC/EC or GPFinal ?
    I definitely feel that fans in Japan value GPF much much more than 4CC, but I can imagine European fans value EC more than GPF.

    Mathman's statement is very true when it comes especially to Mao.
    Mao is perfectionist in nature and silver/bronze medals are proof of imperfection to her IMO. This I'm very much convinced of.
    To be precise, she doesn't strive to win, she cannnot forgive herself for not being the best she can.
    (Of course IMO again.)

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •