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Thread: Serious Question about Patrick Chan's skating ability compared to other skaters

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  1. #1
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    Serious Question about Patrick Chan's skating ability compared to other skaters

    Patrick Chan tends to get very high PCS (and sometimes high GOEs) at most competitions. I'm a big figure skating fan, but I never skated myself. So I don't understand the intricacies of figure skating. Now I have a serious question to the experts here:

    Are Patrick Chan's skating skills, transitions, etc. actually much better than the skating skills and transitions of all the other male single skaters in the world (like Abbott, Kozuka)?

    I just want to know, because it's easier for me to accept his high PCS if he's really so much better than the others.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I would have less problems with all the PCS marks, Chan's included, if the different components were graded directly from the performance rather than incremently from the Skating Skills mark.

    Let's create a perfect skating skills skater (10.0 say) but who has punk choreography and poor performance. He should not be getting 9.5 for those two grades. He should maybe be getting 5 each for those two grades. But that is not what would happen. Another example is Plushenko's self admitted missing transitions. If the perfect skating skills skater has virtually no transitions, he should not be getting 9 for transitions, based down from his 10.

    Unless Chan's basic skating skills are different in the season than at Liberty, I would not say that he is significantly different than Abbott. (Both have competed at Liberty in the same event). But I would rather watch Ryan Bradley than either. However, I would definitely say that Ryan's skating skills should be graded significantly lower than Abbott and Chan. However, at least as skated at Liberty, Ryan's performance grade should outshine both of them.

    The current judges don't do grade the components separately, though. I believe Joe Inman attempted to challenge this system, at least with respect to grading transitions high when there were no transitions. He took a lot of flak for doing that, perhaps rightly so, since the time he picked to do it was neither the time nor the place.

    I do feel that you can't really judge the skating skills of a skater accurately unless you have seen the skater live. Effortless skating is sometimes very deceiving on TV. You wouldn't realize how much Kwan's skating skills circa 2003 were superior to Cohen's if you hadn't seen both live, for example.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-02-2010 at 05:40 AM.

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    No, I don't think that Chan's skating skills, transitions, etc. are so much better than skating skills of all the other male single skaters in the world. Moreover, he is an awful jumper and his expression is far to be good and beautiful. But he has been repeatedly overscored. He sold himself as a drama queen and a very rude abuser of other skaters. This PR trick did the main work and the Canadian/North American media did the rest.

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    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    I think it's only the Canadian media since he was soundly called out by the US media for his poor media skills....

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    I have seen Patrick live and he really does have great skating skills--nice deep edges, great acceleration, etc.

    However, I would have to agree with dorispulaski's point that Patrick's PCS would be less problematic if different components were graded directly from the performance rather than incrementally from the Skating Skills mark. When I saw Patrick live, he did fall multiple times and had some bobbles, and his performance and interpretation ability were clearly affected by his mistakes.

    Unfortunately, when looking at the protocols, quite a few of the judges marked his PE and IN marks more or less the same as his (high) SS marks.

    So I would say that Patrick does deserve high SS, but not always high PCS overall.
    Last edited by evangeline; 11-02-2010 at 07:46 AM. Reason: spelling error

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    I have been priveliged to hear judges themselves discuss Patrick's skating, and they rave about where he is on the blade in relation to the timing of his knee bends and pushes. He can actually increase speed without pushing by using his knees and edges. His edges are completely true without any incorrect bending at the hip in the lean. The timing of the exchange of weight when he changes feet is perfect and there isn't another skater in the world (and there hasn't been for some time) that can skate like this.
    The quality of his transitions and turns and crossovers etc. are a result of this skill, not just that he does them well in themselves like most skaters. That's what the judges apparently see, that most of us can't fully appreciate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trains View Post
    ...and there isn't another skater in the world (and there hasn't been for some time) that can skate like this.
    What about ice dancers?

    And that is the problem. Over emphasising skating skills while diluting the other elements. It won't be men's figure skating.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trains View Post
    * whole post *
    Thank you, train, for explaining so well some of the nuances that go into "skating skills."

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    Quote Originally Posted by trains View Post
    I have been priveliged to hear judges themselves discuss Patrick's skating, and they rave about where he is on the blade in relation to the timing of his knee bends and pushes. He can actually increase speed without pushing by using his knees and edges. His edges are completely true without any incorrect bending at the hip in the lean. The timing of the exchange of weight when he changes feet is perfect and there isn't another skater in the world (and there hasn't been for some time) that can skate like this.
    I would actually say that almost all of this is true of Takahiko Kozuka as well. His edges aren't quite as deep as Patrick's, but then, he doesn't fall on his rear doing footwork as often. In all other ways, IMO, his skating skills are every bit as good. Actually, I think Kozuka is better at accelerating than Patrick. And having seen them both live, I'd much rather watch Kozuka. As wonderful as Patrick's skills are, all his programs are constructed in a way that makes it hard to appreciate them, because all the moves are so frenetic and don't relate to the music at all, it's just as many brackets and rockers/counters crammed together as possible, so he gets a really high transitions score. There's no time to actually enjoy anything. The MITF are all there to get points, and that's it.

    The main difference between their skating skills, IMO, is that Kozuka doesn't have a relentless, highly coordinated media machine and a famous choreographer pushing him to the judges, and telling them what to drool over and value. Patrick Chan has really amazing basics, it's true. But just like Plushenko isn't actually the best jumper of all time, the gap between Patrick's skating skills and everyone else has been built up into something bigger than the reality.
    Last edited by doubleflutz; 11-02-2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: more appropriate wording

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by trains View Post
    I have been priveliged to hear judges themselves discuss Patrick's skating, and they rave about where he is on the blade in relation to the timing of his knee bends and pushes. He can actually increase speed without pushing by using his knees and edges. His edges are completely true without any incorrect bending at the hip in the lean. The timing of the exchange of weight when he changes feet is perfect and there isn't another skater in the world (and there hasn't been for some time) that can skate like this.
    The quality of his transitions and turns and crossovers etc. are a result of this skill, not just that he does them well in themselves like most skaters. That's what the judges apparently see, that most of us can't fully appreciate.
    Are you a judge? So knowlegeable about skating but with only 42 posts on the forum since 2004. Hm, a mysterious expert that speaks out once in a while!!! I really appreciate your posts and sincerely hope that you can share your thoughts with us more often.

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