- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
And Buttle to retireStill, it seems like it takes a while for judges to start noticing.
And Buttle to retireStill, it seems like it takes a while for judges to start noticing.
Still, it seems like it takes a while for judges to start noticing.
So Patrick does seem to be getting better -- or at least the judges feel that he has paid his dues.
This is a really fascinating , informative and thought provoking thread. So far , I judge that gkelly rules....I'm really appreciating your detailed breakdowns.
So IMO "paid his dues" is nothing more than code for "reputation scoring."
And Buttle to retire
I think what gkelly is saying is that one can win on the one PC component - Skating Skills. Even if Patrick did have the best of the Skating Skills in that competition, does it imply that other skaters, notably Oda did not have excellent skating skills? I think not. When a poster resorts to 'the other things' and without mentioning other skaters as not having 'other things', it does not show the reason for a winner. Can 9.4 be that much better than 9.3? or is it just to hold up someone?
Yea so? The discussion was about skaters and reputation, and Buttle was already the bronze Olympic medalist post 2006, i dont think those first seasons of Patrick judges thought of him as the No1 Canadian skater, and yes Patrick defeated him at Nationals but Buttle won Worlds after. Chan came to light as contender after he retired, and if Buttle continued after being world champion I think he would still be No1 Canadian in reputation, this is what i meant.Chan defeated Buttle at the Canadian Nationals in 2008 and Chan won the Paris GP that season. So no, your theory is most likely incorrect.
Buttle in 2008 was way better than Chan. Buttle made a whole bunch of mistakes to lose to Chan at Canadians. Chan had improved so much by 2009 it is hard to know what would have happened. If Buttle could have mantained his consistency from the 2008 Worlds he would have been unbeatable in 2009 and 2010 against the skating everyone else put out at the major events, but fat chance that was going to happen. More likely it is a guessing game with Buttle's inconsistency issues and Chan's improvements but own inconsistency issues.
Yea so? The discussion was about skaters and reputation, and Buttle was already the bronze Olympic medalist post 2006, i dont think those first seasons of Patrick judges thought of him as the No1 Canadian skater, and yes Patrick defeated him at Nationals but Buttle won Worlds after. Chan came to light as contender after he retired, and if Buttle continued after being world champion I think he would still be No1 Canadian in reputation, this is what i meant.
^what is it that judges need a reputation to score more carefully?
It's the Emporer's New Clothes syndrome. If everyone tells you that something is great, then when you see it yourself, yup, it's great.
On the other hand, if you see something that really is great, you don't want to be the first to stick your neck our and say, "this is great." Instead you look around over your shoulder and whisper to your colleagues, "was that great?"
It falls under "judges are human."
Wally says Patrick won SC fair and square. That gives me something to consider since I know he knows more about skating and scoring than I do.
I think after Wally's "dwarf" comment, he can't be considered an unbiased observer. We all have our biases but I still can't over that one.
Wally says Patrick won SC fair and square. That gives me something to consider since I know he knows more about skating and scoring than I do.
Still, Patrick seemed ridiculously overscored in the SP and in my view did not make up enough ground in the LP to beat Oda.
Was Oda at his best?
A more realistic question might be "did Oda need to be at his best to beat the mistake riddled program of Chan?"
Please state the name of a male figure skater in the Vancouver Olympic Games who is shorter than Oda. If you can do that, I will retract my observation, otherwise, like I said, it's a statement of fact, nothing more.
It's almost hilarious if not sad that some people are threatening to quit this sport over the result of a GP?
For the sake of argument, say my objectivity has indeed been compromised for X reason as some angry and emotional fans here are alluding to. Just ignore what I say, what about gkelly's attempts to educate some of the ineducable posters here? It's almost hilarious if not sad that some people are threatening to quit this sport over the result of a GP? I think some fans are good at criticizing but often failed to realize the judges' job under IJS is to detach themselves from the ordinal outcome, hence, they may end up producing results that they emotionally disagree with at the end. I'd like to remind myself of Laura Lepisto in 2010 Worlds, my assessment was she should be 3rd in the LP in my book even though emotionally, like a lot of other people, it felt wrong to put her 3rd.