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Thread: Serious Question about Patrick Chan's skating ability compared to other skaters

  1. #46
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Patrick is also sartorially challenged, according to Universal Sports fashion blogger and former Project Runway contestant Nick Verreos:

    http://www.nickverrreos.blogspot.com/

    Where's My Bayonet: Patrick Chan has decided to go "green" this season and recycle last seasons long program. He once again skated to Phantom of the Opera in this slightly period inspired all black costume.
    Chan is one of those skaters that chooses simplicity over drama and although there is nothing wrong with this look, he definitely could have used an update. And he looked like he was doing a bad Civil War Reenactment as opposed to The Phantom!


  2. #47
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    That´s funny! Are you joking? According to your description the only thing than Chan has are extraordinary skating skills (which is absolutely true), you suggest that´s enough to get high scores, despite the falls, crappy performance, etc ??????
    No, I don't think that should be done, but unfortunately it's what most judges are doing (make no or almost no difference in grading the 5 PCS scores).

    Chan certainly also has some charisma (not only fine SS), but IMO there are other skaters I would give a higher PE and IN mark than Chan (i.e. Takahashi).

  3. #48
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Worlds were a great experience for me cause I saw many top skaters that couldn't watch in Europeans etc and from the very front seat, and had a new image for skaters I didn't appreciate or even disliked, like Joubert that I confirmed since Europeans all the hype around him since he has spectacular jumps, speed and much personality on the ice and Abott that doesnt sell any of his skills but invites you in to discover him and his program. And Chan was for sure a great surprise concerning the way he moves on the ice. Without me having much of a blade knowledge he was way too different than the rest and I kept looking at his feet as he skated non stop. But this is all I remember from him. I couldnt get if he is a showman on a bad day or an introverted skater that I didnt get, could not see any personality there. I also saw him at the Gala where he skated to Coldplay with choreography by Browning and normally with this music he could have sold the helll of this program but he didnt. I really mind his small jumps (but his quad was great) and him skating clean almost never. Imagine if an average viewer opened youtube to see the winner of SC and watched his sp first. I m used to ladies falling but if I have to live to watch the winner in men with 4 falls even with god given skating skills I ll pass.
    I got annoyed by his comments at first but normally I dont mind the comments if the skater backs it up with his skate, and in my opinion he didnt. I dont think him landing the quad put him in the team of Dai and Joubert as he said, whenI especially Joub has landed it since 2002 like 100 times.
    Even if it looks like i do, i dont prefer kiss blowing and pelvic thrusts instead of more inspired choreo but if the skaters have the presence to impose this to me then kudos. From this season, I stayed and watched Amodio's monsterous MJ program because he captured me. And certainly enjoyed Bertsson's sp more than Chan's.

    I agree with the one who said that they would pay Bradley to watch even with less spectacular skating skills. And I m sorry I saw Ryan live too late, he is my fav Usa man, such strong personality and a great showman.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    Nadine, I have to disagree with you on both points.
    1. This HAD already happened at the Olympics. Chan was places above Weir, very unfair. I heard T.Tarasova's comments at the Olympics TV broadcast of men LP and can quote her as saying that "judges always have given him too high marks "...

    2. GP events are important because skaters get their rating scores. At Worlds they will be placed at groups according to their current ratings. Now Chan has a wrongly high rating, he stands above Oda, etc. Judges take the skater current rating into account, no doubt.

    Hi Ellen, thanks for your comments because now that I think about it, you are right. I never bothered to consider ratings. I'm glad you pointed that out. As regards the Olympics, I meant 4 falls wouldn't have given him the gold medal, and rightfully so. But I do recall the controversy about how he was placed over Weir overall. I have no opinion on that except to say the Olympics was held in Canada and therefore I'm not surprised that Patrick finished in the top 5.

    Even though I admired Patrick Chan's skating at the Olympics, so I did the rest of the skaters as well, not just him. In no way do I think he is superior to all the other men out there. For instance, I admired the sheer power & height & amplitude of Vaugh Chipeur's jumps, the classic beauty of Jeremy Abbott's all-around skating, seeing Brian Joubert up close & personal (his fighting spirit), Johnny Weir's charisma, the classic Russian style in full evidence by that one golden-haired tall blonde drink of water (no, not Zhenya, lol, his compatriot), Adrian Schultheiss's unusual avant-garde style, Daisuke Takahashi's natural born entertainer style on full display, Nobunari Oda's big jumps, Evan Lysacek's tall/dark/handsome appeal, and last but not least the greatest 21st century male skater to ever live ~ Evgeni Plushenko (his aura of invincibility, his sheer confidence & total command of the ice need to be seen in person, in a competitive environment to really be appreciated, there's nothing like it, honestly).

    It's really quite ironic that I am a full-fledged fan of Kevin Reynolds, especially after the Olympics, when Canada has been on my **** list since the Olympics (even before then to tell the truth, but especially after the Olympics). I was there, in the audience, and I saw the favoritism exhibited toward Evan over Evgeni (you know that big bad Russian mentality that the North seems to have always had against Russia since I was a child; I can remember it back in school in the 70's/80's). I honestly thought Evgeni had won, though I knew it would be close, this is the way I felt, the music says it all ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHreMHtajKE

    Lyrics to "Song to the Siren" by This Mortal Coil

    On the floating, shapeless oceans
    I did all my best to smile
    til your singing eyes and fingers
    drew me loving into your eyes.

    And you sang "Sail to me, sail to me;
    Let me enfold you."

    Here I am, here I am waiting to hold you.
    Did I dream you dreamed about me?
    Were you here when I was full sail?

    Now my foolish boat is leaning, broken love lost on your rocks.
    For you sang, "Touch me not, touch me not, come back tomorrow."
    Oh my heart, oh my heart shies from the sorrow.
    I'm as puzzled as a newborn child.
    I'm as riddled as the tide.
    Should I stand amid the breakers?
    Or shall I lie with death my bride?

    Hear me sing: "Swim to me, swim to me, let me enfold you."
    "Here I am. Here I am, waiting to hold you."



    Lol, I've come a long way since then, but the solipsism displayed by Patrick's fans (& Canadians in general) gets to me at times, especially the condescending tone...
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-04-2010 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #50
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    ...solipsism...
    I love this board!

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    Chan wouldnt have won the Olympics even had he been clean. Lambiel made more mistakes and had less overall content than him (quads but no triple axels and no X-triple toe combinations) and still beat him. That is because A) better skaters than him like Lysacek, Plushenko, Takahashi, and Lambiel were all there, and B)being such a major event they couldnt afford to monkey around with scores like at events like Skate Chanada. If he had been totally clean he might have gotten the bronze only since Takahashi and Lambiel made so many mistakes. The Olympics was in Canada but it was a big event so they had no choice but to judge him properly for his true abilities unlike Skate Chanada, and could not artifically hold him up over much superior skaters like Lysacek.

    As for beating Weir that was all Weir being unfairly held down, it had nothing to do with Chan really. Weir was only the #3 American and thus had no hope of a medal no matter how well he skated and how many mistakes others made. He was slated to come about 10th-12th on protocal but his own best performances ever (which really should have place d him atleast 4th in a fair world) and others mistakes forced him into a higher spot.

  7. #52
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    I didn't know Lysacek was much superior.

  8. #53
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    Lysacek has higher and better executed jumps, better spins, and he is a better overall performer, has more command of the ice, and sells his programs better. Chan has better skating skills and footwork but not by much since Lysacek is also excellent in both areas. They are similar in choreography and transitions the last few years since Evan had Lori Nichol do his programs. And Evan is far more consistent and a better clutch competitor. So yes Evan is superior. That is why Evan is a World and Olympic Champion and Chan despite being a visible judges pet is not.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    Agreed. I am so busy watching Patrick's feet (amazing) I sometimes lose my concentration on what is going on above the waist.
    Me too. Plus, many people point out that you can't judge speed on tv - that some "slow" people on tv are quite fast; I have never doubted Chan's speed on tv and the distance he covers in one stroke (or his ability to maintain speed on one foot) is also obvious to me even on tv.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I think Kozuka and Oda have very soft knees which make their landings look very smooth. However, that is far from the only thing to consider in Skating Skills. Chan is not tall but Kozuka and Oda are dwarf like based on North American standard - this is not a criticism, just an observation having seen both skated live many times.
    "Dwarf-like"? Come on!

    Ok, Oda is short. But Kozuka (according to their ISU biographies) is only 3cm shorter than Chan. If you are skeptical of the heights listed on the ISU biographies, pictures of Kozuka and Chan together clearly show that Kozuka is only slightly shorter than Chan. If Kozuka is "dwarf-like" than so is Chan.

    And as another poster pointed out, what does height have to do with anything? Are you trying to justify that Kozuka's and ODa's skating skills are somewhat inferior to Chan's because Chan is taller?
    Last edited by evangeline; 11-03-2010 at 09:48 PM. Reason: fixing a broken link

  11. #56
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Suddenly, it feels fortunate we have a tall - by any geographical standards - Olympic Champion.
    It saved me from reading comments like the one quoted above.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Lol, I've come a long way since then, but the solipsism displayed by Patrick's fans (& Canadians in general) gets to me at times, especially the condescending tone...
    Hmmm, I'm really wondering how much you know about "Canadians in general"?

    Talking about one individual is one thing. Generalizing is another. It's dangerous.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-03-2010 at 10:33 PM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    "Dwarf-like"? Come on!

    Ok, Oda is short. But Kozuka (according to their ISU biographies) is only 3cm shorter than Chan. If you are skeptical of the heights listed on the ISU biographies, pictures of Kozuka and Chan together clearly show that Kozuka is only slightly shorter than Chan. If Kozuka is "dwarf-like" than so is Chan.

    And as another poster pointed out, what does height have to do with anything? Are you trying to justify that Kozuka's and ODa's skating skills are somewhat inferior to Chan's because Chan is taller?
    AFAIK Kozuka and Chan are both always listed as either 5'6" or 5'7" so they are both small, but to me Kozuka actually gives the appearance of being taller than Patick because he is more slight in build and has longer limbs. In regular terms you could consider them dwarf like, but in the skating world they are pretty average. Rippon, Brezina, Lambiel are all around 5'7" (Plushy too....I don't believe he's 5'10") as were Orser and Buttle. Takahashi is only 5'5" and skaters like Oda and Sawyer are even shorter. Abbott, Verner, Joubert may look tall but they are only around 5'10", so average by normal standards. Evan at 6'2" is the only top skater I can think of that would be considered tall in the real world, and he towers above skaters like Joubert and Abbott who would otherwise look pretty tall out there. So essentially, in the skating world, Chan and Kozuka are not dwarf like by any means, and are actually probably the ideal height/size for a man in skating.

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    Isn't Browning 5'7" or so? And Stojko is a similar height. That seems about optimum for a male singles skater, with a few inches on either side in the range. (I seem to recall that Wylie is 5'4", and Scotty Hamilton is approximately two inches smaller than that.) The only current senior skater who seems really diminutive is Oda, and part of that is his very young-looking face. In any case, when Oda jumps, he's about twice that height, so it's irrelevant!

  15. #60
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Isn't Browning 5'7" or so? And Stojko is a similar height. That seems about optimum for a male singles skater, with a few inches on either side in the range. (I seem to recall that Wylie is 5'4", and Scotty Hamilton is approximately two inches smaller than that.) The only current senior skater who seems really diminutive is Oda, and part of that is his very young-looking face. In any case, when Oda jumps, he's about twice that height, so it's irrelevant!
    I think Kurt's "officially" 5'7 - at least that's what I've always seen it as. But I'm 5'7" and he stands close to an inch taller.

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