I guess I should've put in a disclaimer: Canadian figure skating, their federation, what I read on the boards over the years, the 2002 Olympics, the 2010 Olympics, the originators of the COP. Of course this doesn't include all Canadians. *rolls eyes*
I find figure skating in general to be corrupt, not the skaters/never the skaters, but the powers behind them (judges, federations, ISU, etc.), it's cyclic, and has been going on since the very beginning. In Sonja Henie's day it was the Norwegians. No country goes unscathed, especially those that are dominating at the time. It is extremely naive to think otherwise.
That said, I have always *tried* (tried being the operative word here) to rise above it all, because if there is one thing I do NOT want to be is an embittered old f.s. fan. Whenever I feel I'm getting to that point I look up an old poster on the 'net and read her writings, one whom has never gotten over the 1998 Olympics, to this day carrying vitriol toward Tara Lipinski, Sasha Cohen, and Sarah Hughes. As if it's their fault, blaming these young women for something that had nothing to do with them. And the same goes for Patrick Chan or whomever, this has nothing to do with him, and I don't hold it against him.
To tell the truth, I just like to enjoy the skating, no matter whence it comes from. And I actually did enjoy Evan and everybody else that night at the Olympics, not just my favorite, lol. I was just happy to be in the audience, watching, enjoying the beauty and athleticism of the athletes. Appreciating how hard they all work.
But I can understand the anti-pathy if some Russians have it in for the Canadians, especially spurred on by the comments of trolls or the solipsism of some Canadian fans, which is never enjoyable to read imho. In this case I recommend stepping away from the boards, relaxing, and coming back after a siesta to read the comments of posters like Dorispulaski.
Ellen, I look forward with great anticipation and excitement for the 2014 Sochi Olympics, knowing it will be the very first time in history Russia will ever host the Winter Olympic Games. I'm only sad that you cannot attend yourself, but I can just imagine the festivities leading up to it!!!!! (8^D ***ps: and I also look forward to your review of Patrick Chan's skating at COR.***
I think too many figure skating fans are too rapt up in their nationalities to really judge a championship. The purpose of a championship is to determine who was the winner, the runner-up and the podium finisher. (Maybe, the judges are also!)
Anyone can see that Patrick has the speed, flow, edgings, and basic turns required in a competition. Did he do his best in his SP and LP? Was he the only one who did their best?
In the case of the GPs, the object is to get to the GP Finals. Each segment does not crown a skater as being the best in the world, and neither does the GPF, the Worlds,the Olympics -only the best in a particular competition.
Well I understand SS and other areas of PCS are independent from jumps/spins/steps and Chan's SS is accepted by many people thanks to your explantion. But what's the reason that Kozuka and Abbott whom I think have very solid basic skills do not get the highest points for SS?
As for Carolina, she has a very good speed but sometimes she cannot control her speed hence inconsistent jump landings and often falls. When she was on, she could do huge, electrifying 3-3s and even a 3-3-3. Good old days. I have not seen her doing yet but she did a level 4 step too. Tremendous talent.
OTOH, Yuna can control her speed and transfer her speed to jumps. She is the (only) female skater who can do 3Lz with the male skaters' technique. She has never got level 4 steps but I think she has a very good SS too.
You told about Chan's SS... what about others?
It just hit me that Joub with less mistakes than Chan in sp ended 16th or 18th after the short in Olympics. I m not saying Chan should end up 18th out of 12 and I know Chan has better SS than anyone else, but how much better?
1. In Vancouver Olympics, vast amount of spectators are from US like yourself who traveled to there just to watch the game since it's so close and easy. Therefore, to lay blame of favoritism towards Lysacek on Canadians are not fair. North Americans, if you will, including US will be more accurate. You were there, you probably remember the audience's reaction when Johnny Weir's marks were up. According to the audiences, Johnny's mark should be higher. Higher meant possibly pass Chan. At 2009 Worlds in LA, weren't there any favoritism on Lysacek from the audiences?
2. Small population on a big land, Canada has only 1/10 of US population. It's natural for Canadians being assertive and holding heads up and bravely facing the next door and their only, giant and powerful neighbor. It's perfectly understandable when they over joyed by their athletes' success. It's impressive for Canadian's achievements with limited resources and everything.
3. How big a difference between Canadians and Americans? I know there are some, and I can point some of them out right away. But in general, they are North Americans. They think like North Americans, and they act like North Americans. How Canadians do mirror how Americans do, and vise versa. It's funny that some of the Americans constantly try to wash themselves clean and lay blames on Canadians. Think that they are different like angels and evils.
It's OT. So sorry. Back to Chan's hight and his extraordinary skating skills.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-04-2010 at 12:26 PM.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Nadine. It’s all make sense now. It proves one more time, some people don’t care moral principles, when behind all this media, officials and more.
This not first time story, one of the worst one was Worlds 2001 dance competition and medal ceremony. Just bad.
Torino 2006 wasn’t like that at all. All skaters were treated with great applause and respect from audience and no media games.
Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-04-2010 at 02:53 PM.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GFqEzxqpd7c/0.jpg No way is Lambiel 5'9". He only looks to be at most 3 inches taller than Yuna, making him in between 5'7" and 5'8", the same size as Brezina, Rippon, and Buttle. A lot of ISU heights are inflated by a few cm at least. Also, Abbott's bio on icenetwork says he is 5'9", meaning Joubert would be about 5'8", which seems about right looking at this picture of him next to Yu-Na and David Wilson http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...66.53417067377. Takahashi also looks shorter than Mao Asada most of the time, meaning his listing as 5'5" may be overstated. I tend to think most of these skaters are an inch or two shorter than what they are listed as on the internet, it's not that surprising, celebrities inflate their heights too.
Also, skates add about 3 inches and the camera about 10 pounds so most of these male figure skaters probably look really small/thin in person. Even Brian Joubert who looks like one of the more muscular guys out there is apparently is wiry in person.
Last edited by silverlake22; 11-04-2010 at 02:04 PM.
I, for one, do believe that tech and musicality are vastly different and competitions should show separate and distinct contests for each.
So what is the point of judging the value of the elements?But never underestimate that skating skills mark. That is what the judges really think of the skaters' ability, whether or not they landed any or all of their jumps.
In the case of Chan many of his defenders went to the Skating Skills component to justify his win, so maybe your negating the other components is true, i.e., only Skating Skills matter in the PC scores. For me Skating Skills are no more than 20% of the PC, and they are, like the 6.0system, no more than opinions. Opinions are based on Nationalities, favorites, and past performances with a little bit of skating knowledge.It is said that Chan has the transitions. What is the transition? - It is one-two extra rotations or some simple steps on two feet. So if someone had a transition but failed to complete the jump that followed it - how could he be marked higher than a skater who had no transition but landed the quad?
You're right transitions are turns and steps between elements, but that catagory also takes into account how well they are done. Did the skater step from a clean back outside edge completely to a clean forward outside edge? Or was it just a vague backward step to a vague forward step? etc. It takes a highly trained eye to see this. Some combinations of transitions are much more difficult than others and all are more difficult with speed, like anything. And you are also absolutely right that the jumps should be completed as well. Put it all together and you have the perfect skater! I think we may never see that!
I also think that Carolina Kostner is the best ladies "skater" by far. But she can't always put it together either.
If Chan had had the best skating skills that evening, were all the other skaters in that competition totally lacking in skating skills? I think not. Splatting on the ice is not what I would call good skating skills.
[QUOTE=silverlake22;525672]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GFqEzxqpd7c/0.jpg No way is Lambiel 5'9". He only looks to be at most 3 inches taller than Yuna, making him in between 5'7" and 5'8", the same size as Brezina, Rippon, and Buttle. A lot of ISU heights are inflated by a few cm at least. Also, Abbott's bio on icenetwork says he is 5'9", meaning Joubert would be about 5'8",QUOTE]
I don´t know how tall is Lambiel in ft, I´m 1,70 (5´7) and Lambiel is clearly taller than me. I´ve said around 1,75 (5´9?) because the difference is visible, it´s not 1 or 2 cm. . Anyway he can be shorter than 5´8
Last edited by ciocio; 11-04-2010 at 03:30 PM.
It is strange to debate something that just needs an IKEA measurement tape or just to watch them live but Lambiel is taller than Brezina unless Brezina grew up more since Europeans.
It is Kozuka < Brezina < Lambiel=Weir< Plushenko< Joubert<<<<<<<<Lysacek.
Back on topic, I don't see what is so amazing about Chan's transitions. Skating skills, yes, speed, yes, spins, yes, but transitions? He doesn't seem to have any more or better transitions than most of his competitors...