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Thread: Pairs - short program

  1. #16
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    I look forward to the accusations of corruption, mafioso interference, etc.

  2. #17
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    I've just come out from the COC. S/H were amazing! So bad that he've made a mistake, but the whole package was SO IMPRESSIVE! The audiences love them, they were the highlight of the night!
    And I don't know why everyone loves I/M here, their performance was borning and they didn't show the passion. They're not as beautiful as they're in the television, just so dissappointed, E/L should have better socore than them!
    E/L and Y/C were SOOO GOOD! E/L were robbed! They should be at least better than I/M! Their proformance was a lot of passion! LOVE THEM! Hope they can get a better score tommorrow!

  3. #18
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    Pang & Tong and Sui & Han are so close!


  4. #19
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    Cong and Sui are in second because they have the most 'complex' choreography that allows them to really get into character, even if it may seem 'juniorish'. I recall similar reactions to Oda's Chaplin last year. The difficult transitions (even if they may be one too many...and they need to stop the constant lasso-arm thing) increase the difficulty of all the required elements since you have more to worry about before every throw, jump etc and you have to pull it off as if it were only an afterthought. Also they didn't fall on one of the big required elements. They skate with great speed, ice coverage, and have huge throws. This is why they are in second, though I believe they ought to be in first. I really enjoyed their program, actually.

    Here is their short:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g88KWiJlLP0

    While I like C/Y, they don't skate with enough speed and John's posture (slouch much?) needs and has always needed some...correction.. though Caitlin has great extension and presentation. But I do think C/Y and E/L have the best chance of nabbing nationals champions this year. Hope they medal here

    And for the pairs judging favoring home ice favs P/T-- well, it is nothing compared to Skate Canada is all I have to say.
    Last edited by cornell08; 11-05-2010 at 11:35 AM.

  5. #20
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    I have also just arrived home from CoC. Based on what I saw, I think the judges' order is correct, although I don't agree with the score spread of the top 5. Pang/Tong didn't have their finest skate technically (and they were 4th in TES), but the overall quality of skating was clearly above any other pair out there, and PCS rightfully on top which puts them in #1 but not way out there. I like their program. Sui/Han: this pair had more energy and presence than any of the more senior teams, aided by music and choreography that was appropriate for their ages, skills, and style. They made me grin the entire way through the program--and that's not easy for a skater to do (I'm more likely to be grimacing). Even with the fall (which happened right in front of me), they got right back into it. I could have sworn they did a triple twist rather than a double like everyone else--possibly my eyes deceived me but we'll wait for protocols to see why those TES were highest. I think their PCS was too high on the SS/TR dimensions by at least a couple of points. I would have had them neck and neck with Yankowskas/Coughlin, with YC deserving their PCS or even a bit better. They did a great job, considering in the warm up she was really struggling with the SBS jumps. I did not think I/M's performance was boring, but I'm not fond of the music/program. They had good speed and managed to keep up their energy all the way through. I thought their marks were fair. I was (pleasantly) surprised that they were able to skate this well with no apparent loss of stamina, after arriving here from from Canada just a couple of days ago.

    Evora/Ladwig had a nice program but they seemed a little "tight" and maybe a tad flat emotionally. I think their PCS marks are way too low--I don't see how they could have been scored lower than about 25.0. Next to last in PCS? Definitely not. They ABSOLUTELY should have PCS above the Italians and Dong/Wu. IMO, this was the most glaring screw-over of the pairs short, so not sure what to make of this. D-M/K pretty much powered through their program, but there was nothing special or memorable, and there skating is fairly one dimensional without nuance. A little sloppy in the last half. Maybe it's the music/choreo, I knew very little about them coming into this comp. Dong/Wu had some good elements but spins were not and it looked like getting her into the lift was a slight struggle. BTW, her hair was very distracting--she needs to either cut it way short, or get it pinned back and under control. The mini-Yuko Kavaguti look doesn't work for me. The orchestration of their music is too heavy with percussion, something about it clashes with their skating style. Hole/Johnson didn't look comfortable at all--I was expecting better. He looks like a much stronger basic skater than she. Their music choice doesn't do them any favors. I'm hoping it's all just a case of jet lag for them.

  6. #21
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    E/L's short:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wISIF7VdhJs

    I love this program for them, though they need to change the latter part of the choreography-- the death spiral does NOT go with the music there. Love their speed though; my favorite American pair with C/Y in second.

    C/Y's short:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF-TURY11PE
    They've improved alot, but need way more speed on their footwork seq. John's posture has improved too actually, but it gets awry again during lifts and spins-- when your partner is Caitlin with her beautiful back positions, any hunching over really shows.
    Last edited by cornell08; 11-05-2010 at 11:47 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornell08 View Post
    Cong and Sui are in second because they have the most 'complex' choreography that allows them to really get into character, even if it may seem 'juniorish'. I recall similar reactions to Oda's Chaplin last year. The difficult transitions (even if they may be one too many...and they need to stop the constant lasso-arm thing) increase the difficulty of all the required elements since you have more to worry about before every throw, jump etc and you have to pull it off as if it were only an afterthought. Also they didn't fall on one of the big required elements. They skate with great speed, ice coverage, and have huge throws. This is why they are in second, though I believe they ought to be in first. I really enjoyed their program, actually.
    Sui & Han do indeed have program filled with transitions, but there is no actual skating - it's tricks and more tricks in between. Their basics are poor, espesially hers and the program is designed to hide it with the lots of going on there. They also lack very much in unison, as well as in lines. There is a couple of years ahead of them to learn and maybe they will deserve some 6 and 7th in skating skills one day, but not yet.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    I have also just arrived home from CoC. Based on what I saw, I think the judges' order is correct, although I don't agree with the score spread of the top 5. Pang/Tong didn't have their finest skate technically (and they were 4th in TES), but the overall quality of skating was clearly above any other pair out there, and PCS rightfully on top which puts them in #1 but not way out there. I like their program. Sui/Han: this pair had more energy and presence than any of the more senior teams, aided by music and choreography that was appropriate for their ages, skills, and style. They made me grin the entire way through the program--and that's not easy for a skater to do (I'm more likely to be grimacing). Even with the fall (which happened right in front of me), they got right back into it. I could have sworn they did a triple twist rather than a double like everyone else--possibly my eyes deceived me but we'll wait for protocols to see why those TES were highest. I think their PCS was too high on the SS/TR dimensions by at least a couple of points. I would have had them neck and neck with Yankowskas/Coughlin, with YC deserving their PCS or even a bit better. They did a great job, considering in the warm up she was really struggling with the SBS jumps. I did not think I/M's performance was boring, but I'm not fond of the music/program. They had good speed and managed to keep up their energy all the way through. I thought their marks were fair. I was (pleasantly) surprised that they were able to skate this well with no apparent loss of stamina, after arriving here from from Canada just a couple of days ago.

    Evora/Ladwig had a nice program but they seemed a little "tight" and maybe a tad flat emotionally. I think their PCS marks are way too low--I don't see how they could have been scored lower than about 25.0. Next to last in PCS? Definitely not. They ABSOLUTELY should have PCS above the Italians and Dong/Wu. IMO, this was the most glaring screw-over of the pairs short, so not sure what to make of this. D-M/K pretty much powered through their program, but there was nothing special or memorable, and there skating is fairly one dimensional without nuance. A little sloppy in the last half. Maybe it's the music/choreo, I knew very little about them coming into this comp. Dong/Wu had some good elements but spins were not and it looked like getting her into the lift was a slight struggle. BTW, her hair was very distracting--she needs to either cut it way short, or get it pinned back and under control. The mini-Yuko Kavaguti look doesn't work for me. The orchestration of their music is too heavy with percussion, something about it clashes with their skating style. Hole/Johnson didn't look comfortable at all--I was expecting better. He looks like a much stronger basic skater than she. Their music choice doesn't do them any favors. I'm hoping it's all just a case of jet lag for them.
    Thank you so very much for the review! I envy your ability to be there!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    Sui & Han do indeed have program filled with transitions, but there is no actual skating - it's tricks and more tricks in between. Their basics are poor, espesially hers and the program is designed to hide it with the lots of going on there. They also lack very much in unison, as well as in lines. There is a couple of years ahead of them to learn and maybe they will deserve some 6 and 7th in skating skills one day, but not yet.
    Program component score rewards difficulty and variety as well as execution, emotional involvement and lots of other things. To be honest I'll glad that complex choreographies are getting rewarded because it encourages more variety in programs. Pairs skating nowadays are getting more and more about choosing the slowest "romantic" music to skate to with "good lines" but ignore everything else in the presentation.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I look forward to the accusations of corruption, mafioso interference, etc.
    You know it. I wonder which discipline this time. LOL

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
    Program component score rewards difficulty and variety as well as execution, emotional involvement and lots of other things. To be honest I'll glad that complex choreographies are getting rewarded because it encourages more variety in programs. Pairs skating nowadays are getting more and more about choosing the slowest "romantic" music to skate to with "good lines" but ignore everything else in the presentation.
    Difficulty and variety have to be also attractive, with good lines, good flow etc. I didn't see anything difficult or innovative in their program - mostly dance lifts- nothing particulary interesting or difficult- and everything was very sloppy.
    I actually liked the idea of the program and how it fits them, but they didn't deserve the scores they got.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    Sui/Han: this pair had more energy and presence than any of the more senior teams, aided by music and choreography that was appropriate for their ages, skills, and style. They made me grin the entire way through the program--and that's not easy for a skater to do (I'm more likely to be grimacing). Even with the fall (which happened right in front of me), they got right back into it. I could have sworn they did a triple twist rather than a double like everyone else--possibly my eyes deceived me but we'll wait for protocols to see why those TES were highest.
    Are you sure they didn't do a quad twist when everyone else did a triple? They attempted it at their Junior Worlds, as well as throw quad sal. I/M certainly looked like they did a triple twist to me, although that's the only program I've watched. S/H doing a quad twist and perhaps even a quad throw would go quite a ways towards explaining the TES lead.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLLLutz View Post
    Sui & Han do indeed have program filled with transitions, but there is no actual skating - it's tricks and more tricks in between. Their basics are poor, espesially hers and the program is designed to hide it with the lots of going on there. They also lack very much in unison, as well as in lines. There is a couple of years ahead of them to learn and maybe they will deserve some 6 and 7th in skating skills one day, but not yet.
    Well, they are what? 15 and 18 years old I think, I expect that they have many many years ahead to improve those areas. What I like about them the most is that they interpret the music, they show body language, which for a chinese team is a surprise at such a young age, I mean if I compare them to the Zhangs (whom I still dream to see skating with real emotion), these kids have definitely worked on one thing that was hard for the previous teams. They are takng a page out of the Shen and Zhao book, and I can only hope that they keep improving year after year.

  14. #29
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    It's been awhile since I've been into American pairs until today. I've never notice Caitlin Yankowskas and John Coughlin. They were quite impressive here. They have the presentation and style of all the U.S. pairs imo to be the top pair but I guess they are not consistent enough in the long.

    They need to work on spins, speed in fw. John needs to be a little be stronger and stretch. I do notice his posture.
    Last edited by lavender; 11-05-2010 at 05:24 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubleflutz View Post
    Are you sure they didn't do a quad twist when everyone else did a triple? They attempted it at their Junior Worlds, as well as throw quad sal. I/M certainly looked like they did a triple twist to me, although that's the only program I've watched. S/H doing a quad twist and perhaps even a quad throw would go quite a ways towards explaining the TES lead.
    They tried a quad twist at a Jr Grand Prix and it was underrotated and just not well executed. It received a lot of -GOE. They definitely didn't do it today.

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