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Thread: Sectionals/Challenge Discussion

  1. #61
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    Dance events were also quite interesting. Had a look at some of the Novice teams. All in all, a decently judged event. I personally would have put Bruser/Lum further ahead. Not a fan of kermit the frog as a program for Novice, to be honest. (And I'm feeling sort of the same way about some of the other show programs at the top.) Although Edwards/Pang are young, and I'm all for age appropriate programs, this one seemed a little too young for Novice. If they actually win Novice at Nationals, which is very possible, will they suddenly "grow up" to do well at Junior Grand Prix next year? I also noticed that Edwards has really grown taller over the last year. I really hope she does not outgrow Pang. There is a risk there. Interesting how BC has taken the top spot in ALL the dance events, and a few other spots as well.

    In Junior, I don't think it was deserved. I would have put at least 2 of the Quebec teams ahead of Orford/Williams. Their program was skated with a lot of power and speed, but it seriously lacked finesse. Bit of a "bull in a china shop" approach. In my opinion, I think ice dance should be about a lot more than power and speed. Finesse, edges, pointed toes, musicality, subtle touches were missing with Orford/Williams, but present with at least 2 of the other Quebec teams. I have to say the whole Junior event was a little odd. On close inspection, I don't think the judging itself was wrong, but the technical calling of the event was just bizarre at best. The marks for SD were extremely low, and perhaps not really accurate. Just thinking logically, it would make sense that some teams would have had a Level 0 at their first competitions. We saw this for a couple of teams at Minto. By this point, with at least a few more competitions under their belts, technical feedback along the way, and a few months more of development, anything lower than a Level 2 should be rare. Instead, Level 0, 1, 2 were everywhere, and from teams that looked pretty good to me. Just doesn't make logical sense. On the FD, the calling also seemed a little odd. Perhaps there were more levels on lifts than were called, and more levels on footwork for more than a few teams. Last year's bronze medalists, who also had 2 JGP events, finished in 15th and hardly qualified for Nationals this year. Here's hoping Skate Canada gets the technical calling sorted out by Nationals.

    The Senior event was pretty predictable. No questionable calls here. Harvey/Gagnon were good, and remind me a little of the Kerr's. She actually lifts him at the end as well. Ralph/Hill had a good showing. Yes, they need new packaging for their SD. Their costumes just look horrid. While the FD is "african themed" in some ways, I actually really like the arrangement of Summertime they used. I'm not sure about his costume. It does suit the music, but it really does look like he is skating in his undershirt. The quality of skating is quite good, and would win Junior this year, but not sure it is enough to stay ahead of Paul/Islam. In a different competiton, I still think it will be a 3-way race with Ralph/Hill, Arnold/Trojek, and Harvey/Gagnon.

  2. #62
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    Level 0, 1, 2 were everywhere, and from teams that looked pretty good to me. Just doesn't make logical sense
    Level 0 and level 1 have also been very common on the JGP circuit this year, even with teams who were at their second JGP assignment. (I'm not talking about only Canadian teams on the JGP circuit, but dance teams from all countries). The technical callers this year for dance have been very strict. That's not just a Canadian thing.

    The solution is for teams to get the technical parts of the 'compulsory dance' portion completely right, not to rely on callers to give them the benefit of the doubt on calls.

  3. #63
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    I'm just saying that teams that normally get much higher levels on their Viennese this season in the SD, were judged a whole lot lower at Challenge. And it wasn't just 1 or 2 teams. I read elsewhere in this forum that Shpilband made this comment: "We were not worried about the technical aspect, but it is going to take some time for the technical specialist to understand how everything works in the SD. For most of the callers it was the first time seeing the SD at the GPs." There are some really good coaches and some good quality skaters who have been working on the Viennese and making sure the steps are right. I'm just saying perhaps it wasn't totally all on the skaters and coaches this time. Looking at SD results, 1 team scored in the 20's, 15 teams in the 30's, 5 teams in the 40's, and 2 teams in the 50's. There should have been a lot more teams closing the gap in the 40's instead of the 30's. I don't buy that there are 12 points in the SD alone between Oliveira/Hockley and Beaudry/Breton. Or 15 points between Carswell/Doleman and Orford/Williams, just looking at the usual top teams. Maybe teams get lower levels the first time out, but not the 5th time out. Mistakes get made, but this is statistically odd.

  4. #64
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    I know ladies is not exactly Canada's strong point, but it's quite sad that no junior lady even attempted the 3Lz, and the girl who won only rotated two triples in both programs combined.

  5. #65
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    I'm just saying that teams that normally get much higher levels on their Viennese this season in the SD, were judged a whole lot lower at Challenge. And it wasn't just 1 or 2 teams. I read elsewhere in this forum that Shpilband made this comment: "We were not worried about the technical aspect, but it is going to take some time for the technical specialist to understand how everything works in the SD. For most of the callers it was the first time seeing the SD at the GPs." There are some really good coaches and some good quality skaters who have been working on the Viennese and making sure the steps are right. I'm just saying perhaps it wasn't totally all on the skaters and coaches this time. Looking at SD results, 1 team scored in the 20's, 15 teams in the 30's, 5 teams in the 40's, and 2 teams in the 50's. There should have been a lot more teams closing the gap in the 40's instead of the 30's. I don't buy that there are 12 points in the SD alone between Oliveira/Hockley and Beaudry/Breton. Or 15 points between Carswell/Doleman and Orford/Williams, just looking at the usual top teams. Maybe teams get lower levels the first time out, but not the 5th time out. Mistakes get made, but this is statistically odd.
    The spread sounds similar to that at Lake Placid IDC (the very first competition I know of):
    Junior A SD was 48 (Lichtman / Copely) down to 20.4 (Vick / Lenz) while Junior B SD was
    45.43(Friedenberg/Nykiel) down to 18.92 (Pascoe/Rashba)

    However, no one in Juniors has totally owned the SD like Monko / Khaliavin RUS, who scored 65.12 at Sheffield JGP

    Carwell/Doleman's best SD score on the JGP was 41.79 at JGP Brasov.
    Orford/Williams' best SD score on the JGP was 49.99 at JGP Czech Skate.

    So I can easily see 10 points between the 2 teams; 15 if C&D had an error.

    It's not desperately surprising: Wing & Lowe always skated their CD's in a very exact way, which is precisely what the SD rules call for. I would be surprised if their students didn't follow the directions on the Viennese steps that the callers focus on.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-06-2010 at 02:31 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I know ladies is not exactly Canada's strong point, but it's quite sad that no junior lady even attempted the 3Lz, and the girl who won only rotated two triples in both programs combined.
    I know the situation is not great but this year is an improvement over previous years. At least more junior ladies are attempting the flips and loops ( and are at least rotating them more often) than in previous years. The winner at the challenge ( Sagaria) seems to be more secure with the loop than even the easier toe or salchow. Her summer results in Quebec suggested this as well.

    In the past the most a top junior lady in Canada would attempt in the FP is a triple toe and salchow. Landing those 2 jumps pretty much meant you won junior ladies.

    To show you how sad the junior ladies has been , it is not abnormal that a summer or fall competition is won by somebody who did not even attempt any triples. I mean sometimes the winner does not even show an attempt to do a triple in warmup so you can't say the doubles are pops.

    Our junior ladies still aren't where they need to be but the situation is better than previous years.
    Last edited by nadster; 12-06-2010 at 12:22 PM.

  7. #67
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    I hear what you're saying, nadster, I do - and it's good that it's improving, however, the content these juniors were attempting is not competitive internationally at all. Sagaria landed two 3Lo (her only triples in the entire competition) but she also got UR calls on her 3T and 3S. I guess the heir to Joannie is still yet to come.

    The ladies in Canada are shockingly weak compared to their ice dance, pairs and men's fields, even down to the junior and novice levels.

  8. #68
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    Well, I just watched the last group of senior ladies...of course my opinion is just that-mine, but here goes. If I had to judge the last group only, and mind you I know nothing about the PCS/TES scores to the tee like some folks but-I like Grenier's speed and power but I'm not seeing "artistic" at all. I like Najarro's line and attack but other than her missed flip, all she has is a triple sal and triple toe. I did enjoy her spins very much. Charbonneau's artistic is very evident but so is her inconsistency..she's young and has much time to improve. Dallas Daniel is an overall pretty well balanced skater and I think she's fun to watch and has a great base. DeSanctis probably would have won the event if her short program was skated as clean as she's skated it all pre-season..I liked her long program and she has the difficult jumps...I guess if she did two more combos her score would reflect that. I found her "different" than the other skaters..To me they all seem to choose the same type of music,(dramatic), they all use their arms and facial expressions to the point where that's all I watch--- I guess it's to show "feeling" the music..I'm just not seeing it. I guess what I mean is they're kind of "cookie cutter" skaters all trying to get PCS scores higher than the next. I found Adriana to be a refreshing change for a change with a style of her own...I guess my ideal podium finish would be Desanctis,Najarro, Grenier..assuming everyone skated clean of course....just my opinion folks.
    Last edited by mariposa; 12-08-2010 at 01:16 PM.

  9. #69
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    skatebuzz has the whole Challenge on-demand, even for those outside Canada (I'm in the U.S.).

    I really enjoyed Duhamel/Radford's FS. I'm hoping that Meagan will get all her triples under control by the time National's rolls around. They look so much more sync'ed and fluid than SC. The sbs spins are really good, the 3 twist looks effortless (is this the first time Meagan's has done 3tw in competition?), and I think this is the softest/most polished I've ever seen Meagan skate. I love the energy/power in their program, too, and they obviously have a pretty good connection with each other.

    I'm really liking this team. They are looking good for the podium, and might even threaten for the gold at National's. I hope they make Worlds team. Go D/R!

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