Men - LP | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Men - LP

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I am very suprised that Verner and his new coach agreed all his problems came from doing quads and it was better for him to stop doing them.
 

smia

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Congrats to Takahiko. I really enjoy his skating - I only wish he didn't keep choosing such dull music... Happy to see Tomas skate pretty solidly, pretty entertaining program as well. And good for Brandon, nice to see him get his first medal on the GP even though he's not one of my favorites yet.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I am very suprised that Verner and his new coach agreed all his problems came from doing quads and it was better for him to stop doing them.

We don't know that. I tend to think we'll see his quad come back in the near future, but it seems like he and his coach are focusing on doing clean performances, and obviously it's working, I haven't seen Tomas skate a FS like that in a long time. It seems like the plan is to be clean and conservative to get the support of the judges behind him again, and then once he has that down he'll bring back the quad and the extra kick of personality. I think the last few seasons showed him the quad wasn't getting him anywhere. Now he sees he can still score well and medal without the quad, so once he regains his confidence and reputation and brings the quad back, he will be the total package :). I'm proud of him for making the change.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
We don't know that. I tend to think we'll see his quad come back in the near future, but it seems like he and his coach are focusing on doing clean performances, and obviously it's working, I haven't seen Tomas skate a FS like that in a long time. It seems like the plan is to be clean and conservative to get the support of the judges behind him again, and then once he has that down he'll bring back the quad and the extra kick of personality. I think the last few seasons showed him the quad wasn't getting him anywhere. Now he sees he can still score well and medal without the quad, so once he regains his confidence and reputation and brings the quad back, he will be the total package :). I'm proud of him for making the change.

I am happy that he is staying upright. He is an elegant skater and fun to watch when he holds it together.
Maybe this will be a comeback season for Tomas .....and Alissa. :)
 

anony

Spectator
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Brian's quad was marked as underrotated? :0 But wow those scores are pretty low...
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I really liked only Machilda and Verner -although Verner music cuts are too many and the program doesnt feel a program, the minutes seemed endless. But he sold it and so good to see him back, when he is relatively clean he is very nice to watch! Liked the outfit also!
Miner has something from old school skating, I dont know if I like it but he looks different.
Contesti-I hate this program and costume and he has awful posture, memories from Euros emerged!
Joubert, I liked the program at masters more than now, I didnt get this low score though, seems too low.
Mroz put me to sleep, sorry. I saw him last year and got no impressed, he doesnt have any color and doesnt sell himself, kudos for the quad though and all his jumps, but he is boringgg.Better than the sp though.
Kozuka, can he please stop skating to this kind of music and getting dressed like 100 years more than his age??? I liked the last season programs more, these year they do him no favor! Except for all that, he is such a poem to watch, and he won !!!!!:party::rock::yay::hb::clap:
 

ae9177

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
We don't know that. I tend to think we'll see his quad come back in the near future, but it seems like he and his coach are focusing on doing clean performances, and obviously it's working, I haven't seen Tomas skate a FS like that in a long time. It seems like the plan is to be clean and conservative to get the support of the judges behind him again, and then once he has that down he'll bring back the quad and the extra kick of personality. I think the last few seasons showed him the quad wasn't getting him anywhere. Now he sees he can still score well and medal without the quad, so once he regains his confidence and reputation and brings the quad back, he will be the total package :). I'm proud of him for making the change.

Great point! Tomas is the only skater that truly has "IT" and can "SELL" it in COC's men's competition. The coach change is definitely the right move for him. I'm so glad that he can finally take a step back and try to regroup himself to rebuild his skating foundation and confidence, one step at a time.

He got two programs that fit his personality perfectly this season, he pleased the Chinese crowd (which in my opion is probably one of the hardest crowd to be pleased in the world), and he already found his unique STYLE on ice. It's a solid start. I'm sure as the season goes by, when he's getting more stable and polished on the technical side and gaining the appreciation back from the judges, he'll add the gorgeous quads back and soar again.

He's such an underachiever for years, hopefully this is the breakout season for him and he can finally skate to his potential at the European Championships and World Championships.
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Don't think I had a favorite program and won't watch any of this again. Tomas was OK, he had the most style.

Agreed. But....to be honest, though I really like Tomas, I preferred Florent's LP to Tomas', even with the excessive posing.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I hope Verner does bring his quad back and he didn't Lysacek it. Maybe in order to get the triples back he had to stop doing the quad for a while. Maybe his few was top down and why he could do quads but pop triples. He has to go bottom up and build to quads. I hope that is it because his quads were really good-not tortured things. So I hope they were not Lysaceked.
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
How I saw it from the audience

From the warmups, looks pretty obvious that the mens competition is going to be a lot more interesting than the ladies...first group up...

Chen—wonky jump technique, if it’s not too late to fix this, he might have hope, but I suspect he’s on his way out with the likes of Nan Song and Han Yan arriving on the scene. He seems OK with just having the chance to get out there and go for it, bless his heart.

Wu—Hot cold hot cold. Tonight cold again. Not only that, but a stupid trip and fall on footwork, and a fall on a sitspin. At least if you’re going to fall, do it while attempting something heroic like a 4T or a 3A-3T. OK he listens to me and falls on a 3F. I do not know what is going on with this skater anymore, I presume the Chinese federation is close to wit’s end as well. I’m sad he seems to be stuck in a huge rut, but there’s just not much improvement athletically or artistically. And I don’t like this music for him.

Liebers—Tickles my fancy for quirky non-generic skaters. I like the somewhat “off center”-sounding Sherlock Holmes soundtrack and figure he’s the guy to sell it. He puts out a mixed bag of decently done jumps and bobbled jumps. Wish his footwork was faster and more connected to music. His skating needs a lot of work on all elements, but he potentially brings something different to the field. I hope he keeps improving and gets more chances at international exposure (outside Europe). He has a lot of potential “audience appeal.”

Contesti—Like the music. He’s handling the jumps but there’s a sloppiness about his skating that I’d be happier if he cured. I’m baffled as to how the judges will score this, especially PCS. Wow—score comes out higher than I expected. Won’t be able to figure this out until the protocols come out. But rightfully out in front so far, and by a sizeable margin. Usually he seems to pick programs where he can play to the crowd, but this one comes across as a bit more introverted. Maybe will evolve by his next GP assignment. Still think he looks too thin.

Guan—My favorite of China’s current Senior veterans. Mostly because he is unusual—having a natural musicality that is lacking in most Chinese skaters. Goes for 4T and crap—he’s down. Comes back and manages to put together a pretty good program. Slowing down towards the end—tired? All in all, very enjoyable to watch this skater. I think he will be placed behind Contesti—if only he had landed that 4T.... Yes, behind Contesti but by a larger margin than I thought fair. I’m not buying this.

Machida—Tiny fellow. Rotates faster than an electric fan in the air. Good jumps. Another skater to try the 4T and another to fall. Boo. He was so close. Slow and boring footwork. Another fall on a 3A. But a lot of promise. He needs to work a lot on PCS elements if he wants to push one of the current top 3 Japanese men out of the way. In my amateur eyes, this skate was better than Contesti’s, but the panel doesn’t feel that way. But it’s enough to put him out front overall for now. I want to see more of this guy.

Miner—Would be nice if he changed his shirt to a color besides white—so he’d stand out against the ice. Really nice sense of music and artistry—could we have a mini-Abbott in the making? Starts out competently but the second half of this program looked like it was heading into the weeds jump-wise with some UR's. Thought his footwork was well choreographed and performed. He’s not going to move up with this though he might hold his position. Entertaining in a pleasant way rather than in-your-face.

Voronov—4T way underrotated and fall. Stops skating and looks hurt, maybe pulled something in that fall? Goes over to the referee, must be a withdrawal. Confirmed by the announcer. Bummer--not something you want to see. He's limping off. Hope it is not too serious and will not affect his training or other competitions too much. The announcement does serve to quiet down an rather large and unruly contingent of pubescent expat Russian girls and moms, sitting not too far from me.

Mroz—I will myself to stay awake, and he obliges by landing a nice 4T, first successful one of the evening, I think. He proceeds to reel off jump after jump, all well done as far as I can tell. His footwork is meh. I’ve never thought of him as a great spinner and the butt-in-air spin position really really needs to be deleted from his repertoire (and everyone else's). This music isn’t bad but demands faster skating and footwork to really make it an effective program. Brandon isn’t up to the task right now. Big music needs big skating. But overall, a very good performance for him—I just wish he could get a little more extroverted and “sell it” to the audience.

Verner—Not sure what’s gotten into him this year. He looks relaxed, he looks in good shape and good humor. Whee! Within the first 5 seconds of Michael Jackson medley, he had the crowd on his side and we were into a positive-feedback loop in the arena. He leaves out the 4T—maybe a good strategy for tonight, we will see. He starts out strong, then loses his way a bit beginning with the botched 3A, but ends up strong. I thought the cuts in the music were a bit jarring, and the program has a distinct air of exhibition about it. But Tomas never stopped selling selling selling it to panel and audience. Look, anybody that can even get the Chinese police (sitting around the arena in security positions) grinning and clapping to the beat...has got to have something special going for him! The crowd is not amused when he ends up placed behind Mrozzzzzzz.

Joubert—Good music and program for him. Puts the 4T out there, maybe UR? Not clean with some jumps issues here and there. Maybe another UR or two? No other 4T attempts. He really has the best ice command of all the men so far tonight. Mr. Presence+ I expect high PCS. Hmm...score comes out and it is not as high as expected, his TES is quite low for him, so there must be a bunch of issues that the protocol will identify. He’s at risk of ending up off the podium.

Kozuka—Wow. Just a super program. Hand down on the 4T, looks like everything else was very fine. This will definitely get a medal...maybe gold? YES! First place in free, first place overall. He is thrilled. The crowd is OK with the result, even though Verner was the sentimental favorite and the Chinese crowd usually prefers for a non-Japanese to win, it was clear Kozuka earned the gold in this competition.

Kozuka, Mrozzz, Verner. Not the podium most were expecting, but can't take away that those three got the job done better than anyone else--though I'm still scratching my head over Joubert. Will check protocols when home.

Good men’s competition. I think we’re seeing a pattern starting to emerge this season, with the quality of competition between the men at a higher standard, and more exciting, than the other disciplines.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Agreed. But....to be honest, though I really like Tomas, I preferred Florent's LP to Tomas', even with the excessive posing.

To be honest I missed Florent's LP - where was it, NHK?
I think I liked Tomas's SP better and just thought at an event full of drab LP's Tomas was less blah than most of the others.
The music and the music cut is nothing I was too crazy about but thought Tomas did a decent job selling it.

Joubert was a bit of a letdown - still glad to see him try something besides techno but he looks no better interpreting Beethoven than Mroz did last season. Maybe a little better :)
 

SerpentineSteps

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
I dunno - Mroz' GOES are EXTREMELY low in general. I'd have to rewatch his program (I was just startled he was clean) to see why that was so.

Ummm... not to mention that he had 2 spins that were level 1. Like herios said, not all about the jumps.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Mroz's skate, and I think it was deserving of what he accomplished (2nd place the effect that a season off of the international scene does to your PCS). I'm very happy of the direction he's going, but the next step to make him competitive at World's would be to get his non-jump elements up to speed.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
To be honest I missed Florent's LP - where was it, NHK?
I think I liked Tomas's SP better and just thought at an event full of drab LP's Tomas was less blah than most of the others.
The music and the music cut is nothing I was too crazy about but thought Tomas did a decent job selling it.

Joubert was a bit of a letdown - still glad to see him try something besides techno but he looks no better interpreting Beethoven than Mroz did last season. Maybe a little better :)

If you haven't watched it yet, here is Florent's LP from NHK.

I understand (and agree with) why people may have issues with the excessive posing, upper-body choreography, etc., etc but Florent is so darn adorable and he clearly loves to dance so I can't help but embrace his LP as this season's favourite guilty pleasure.

And I do agree with your statement that Tomas' LP was less blah than the others--I couldn't make it through Mroz's entire LP, Kozuka has superb skating skills but was kind of meh, and I am not buying classical!Joubert at all.
 

anony

Spectator
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
http://sport.rian.ru/sport/20101106/293220424.html

Credit to original translator:
"I think that the refereeing at this tournament will strike many more conversations - Urmanov said in a telephone conversation with RIA Novosti. - The judges ruled out that Joubert purely executed quadruple toe loop and it was reduced to a triple. When that underotation was obviously less than a quarter of turnover. But if so the less points should be given to Kozuka for his underotated quad, and other athletes. "

The interlocutor of agency has suggested that the decision of the arbitrators could deprive Joubert of medals.

"In the short program, for example, Mroz without question counted cascade" 4+3 ". And the replay clearly shows that the first jump he had a serious nedokrut - over a quarter of turnover - added the expert. - In short, this nuance judges can very strongly "hooligans." I'm pretty sure that the judges didn't even watch the video repeat of "controversial" cascade of Mroz. But they wanted to pick up on Joubert and they did. And may be those lost points were the reason Joubert didn't get to be one of the top three winners " .

"By the way, with regard to program of the Frenchman, I was very surprised that he did not even try to go to the highest levels of footwork and spins. Do not really understand, with what team Joubert going to fight for victory," - said the Olympic champion.

Judging controversy again? :0
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I haven't bothered to look at the replays to see whom UR, etc. It's over & done with, time to move on to the next competition, then Worlds.

But it does seem to me that Brian Joubert seems to be getting a push to retire, no high PCS like some others can get away with, not given the benefit of the doubt on UR calls, et al. The signs aren't good for him, nor any primarily technical skater, he's 26 yrs. old now.

This makes me glad that 28 yr. old Evgeni Plushenko didn't come back this season nor till the Olympic Season.

That said, Brian's LP wasn't anywhere near the brilliance of his SP. Also, he & his team really need to study hard the COP like the Japanese men have done so, as well as the Canadian men. And the American men need to study it as well. I mean look Evan Lysacek studied it to a fault, and therefore knew how to win.

It's become a sport of thinking on your feet, being a mathematician out there, knowing when to include a double jump, a triple, add a bonus point, spin a few more times, count the revolutions, which dance steps will increase your points, difficult entries & exits out of jumps to get more points. It's all about the points, Brian, time to start counting them, having several fall-back plans on the grill. Same goes for Brandon, et al.

I'm wondering if skating will eventually allow a skater to wear a bug in their ear so his/her coach can tell them what to do while the skater is skating. How to increase the points, tell them when they've maxed out on their combo. jumps, tack on a double here or there. It would make things much simpler for the skater imho, and everybody would be on the same playing field, so to speak.

Regards the competition itself, I have no problem with the outcome, Kozuka is a way better skater than Mroz, that's obvious. Brandon is just a technical skater, nothing else, but he could increase his points by learning the COP to a fault like Evan Lysacek did, and also upping his presenation by a mile. He's got such long lines, I really hope he can improve.

I just don't want Brian to end up like Samuel Contesti nor Fumie Suguri. The saddest thing for me is when a truly great champion like Bjorn Borg went out on top at a very young age, only to come back years later to find the sport had passed him by. That was heartbreaking. Whereas Katarina Witt & Brian Boitano's respective comebacks for the 1994 Olympics didn't affect their individual careers, just a bump in the road. They tried, they failed, which makes Evgeni Plushenko's successful comeback that much more appreciated by me. At least he medalled, only lost gold by a point, and made history by becoming the second man in f.s. history to medal at three Olympiads, and the first to do so in the 21st century. I consider that a success, a rare success, as time isn't kind to older ones. I'm so glad he was received with open arms. :)
 

evplu

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Every time the same american boys got higer points than european skaters.

I´m not suprised
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Brian's quad was marked as underrotated? :0 But wow those scores are pretty low...
Interesting comment. I saw a toe-axel take off (the kind Evan used to do). I believe that caused the UR call.

But Brian paid for his sins. He wasn't held up.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Joubert's music was too big for him. If you take aim at Beethoven, you better not miss.

In fact, the symphonic form is not well suited to skating, IMHO. If you go grand and glorious, the concerto form is better. At least a concerto is constructed in such a way as to give the soloist a fighting chance to stand up to the orchestra.
 

evplu

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Because I don´t belive anymore in fair judging in this sport.
C´mon it wasn´t the first time
 
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