Men - LP

[seniorita]

What sins did Joubert paid for? The thing is he got low levels on his spins (and footwork?) , and I dont get it because level 1 means some positions didnt count? He is not a bad spinner, his spins have been improved the recent years but people refuse to see it , they are fast and well centered but he always gets low levels, it doesnt matter if they are pretty, Plushenko managed to always have 3-4 level on spins and were far worse aesthetically, that means that Joubert's coach does something wrong with the rules? I was not enthusiastic about the program presentation-wise but I didnt fall asleep like with Mrozz who did better jumps but he jumps small and skates small, of course thats why I m not the one who is judging the event

Forgot to ask, what is the Ur in single loop of Joubert? Isnt there a new rule about single loop counting for combos??

[doubleflutz]

Urmanov didn't say that the result per se was wrong, he just pointed out some irregularities concerning the underrotation calls.

Exactly. It was not just the UR call, right or wrong, that did Joubert in. Urmanov was spot on about the levels, too. I realize the criteria have changed, but Joubert is just throwing away points on his spins and footwork sequence right now. Also, if he actually intended to do a flip as his final combination, he or his team are idiots. He lips and probably won't ever be able to correct it at this stage of the game, and yet he could have done another lutz instead and not been in violation of the Zayak rule. Hard to tell how much of his jump layout was improvised, but that one really stood out to me.

I do think Joubert's footwork in the SP may have been assessed incorrectly, although that depends on whether the mandatory feature (simple variety/variety/complexity) counts as one of the features for determining the level itself. Does anyone know? If it does, it looked to me like he met the criteria for Level 3 (enough turns and steps for "variety", use of upper body, 50%+ of the pattern all on one foot). If not, Level 2 was correct.

[evplu]

I´m not willing to talk about judging in figure skating. That´s frustrates me to much! I can´t imagine that people who follow this sport for years belive in fairness.
That´s all what I wand to say, good night. It´s time to go bed in germany

[champs]

In the 3rd paragraph of that translation, it seems to say Mroz's 4T in SP should have been 4T< and Joubert's 4T< in FS should have been 4T if I understand it correctly. If that really should have been the case, (Mroz's total score) - (Joubert's total score), which is 216.80 - 210.29 = 6.51, should have been 6.51 -(10.3 - 7.2)*2 = +0.31, so Mroz still would have won over Joubert.

[silverlake22]

But you need to be more specific.

Mroz beat Joubert and Verner, which is what I presume your issue is with (ir is it Miner beating Liebers?). What was unfair about that? Can you be more specific?

I think the UR calls on Joubert's 4t and Verner's second 3a were unfair, those jumps looked good to me, they may have been borderline but I would have given both the benefit of the doubt. It seemed like the judges were trying to knock both down a peg. I agree that Kozuka deserved to win and that Mroz deserved to beat both Joubert and Verner in TES in the FS, but I think the margin should have been much closer, I would have had Verner 2nd, Joubert 3rd, Mroz 4th. Was Kozuka really 10 points better than Verner and 20 points better than Joubert in the FS? I didn't think so but maybe I'm biased...

[silverlake22]

In the 3rd paragraph of that translation, it seems to say Mroz's 4T in SP should have been 4T< and Joubert's 4T< in FS should have been 4T if I understand it correctly. If that really should have been the case, (Mroz's total score) - (Joubert's total score), which is 216.80 - 210.29 = 6.51, should have been 6.51 -(10.3 - 7.2)*2 = +0.31, so Mroz still would have won over Joubert.

If Verner's 3a hadn't been marked <, would that have given him enough points to beat Mroz? I know they were really close.

[Tonichelle]

I´m not willing to talk about judging in figure skating.

but to suggest there was unfairness going on, that means you are willing to talk about it. Maybe just not see the others' reasonings?

[janetfan]

Last week some of the same people were complaining that Chan should not have won because he made mistakes on a few jumps.

This week they are complaining because Mroz, who skated clean got more points than a couple of their favorites who made a few sloppy mistakes.

I love skating fans

[museksk8r]

Last week some of the same people were complaining that Chan should not have won because he made mistakes on a few jumps.

This week they are complaining because Mroz, who skated clean got more points than a couple of their favorites who made a few sloppy mistakes.

That's probably because Mroz is one of, if not THE most flat skater, male or female, currently competing now IMO.

[Joesitz]

It's time to put up the money and have a system of slow motion video for the fans.

It was in slomo that I noticed the toe-axel take off of Brian's 4t. Did the Tech Panel catch it in real time, is the question? The Landing looked ok in real time and in slomo.

btw, I did not see anything wrong with his basics and speed so his Skating Ability should not come into question.

[janetfan]

That's probably because Mroz is one of, if not THE most flat skater, male or female, currently competing now IMO.

Yes, but let's not forget some of the same people whined for quite a while that the quad and 3A should be worth more.
So this younger skater with low pcs beats their favorites on TES

Gotta love skating fans. Let's make the quad worth even more and Reynolds will be the next WC.

[Nadine]

You know that's really interesting, janetfan, your last sentence about Kevin Reynolds (my favorite male skater as of now; until Zhenya returns to competition of course).

Anyhow, a couple of days ago I was reading on the 'net how Kevin is the only man that would even attempt the quad twice in the SP, nobody else competing today would do so, because Kevin is consistent on this jump (he's been doing it consistently since juniors). That made me think when the changes in COP came about this past summer to finally allow a male to do TWO quads in the SP, if that was written specifically with Kevin Reynolds in mind, the future. He's only 20 yrs. old after all.

In retrospect it seem to me that it was written specifically for Kevin Reynolds benefit. I love this kid, but it makes me wonder...

[ImaginaryPogue]

Eh, if they really wanted to make a rule for Kevin Reynolds, they'd get rid of that pesky axel requirement in both the SP and LP.

[Mathman]

On the protocols Joubert has

3S+1Lo<<+2S

I assume this means that the middle jump was supposed to be a 2 loop and was downgraded to a 1 loop? Because I don't see how a 1 loop can be downgraded to anything (it's barely 1/2 a revolution to begin with).

Or was this supposed to be one of those new half-loop sequences that they are allowing this year?

[blue_idealist]

I just watched this this afternoon on CBC. Saw Machida, Mroz, Verner, Kozuka, and Joubert. I think that was it. I was surprised but impressed with Kozuka actually taking the title, felt sorry for Brian though. All the men skated pretty well, but nobody actually blew me away. I hadn't seen Mroz skate that well in awhile though, or Verner either for that matter. It ahd to be a redemption of sorts for Verner.