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Thread: Men - LP

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Yes, but let's not forget some of the same people whined for quite a while that the quad and 3A should be worth more.
    So this younger skater with low pcs beats their favorites on TES

    Gotta love skating fans. Let's make the quad worth even more and Reynolds will be the next WC.
    Is anyone really arguing that, though? For the long, the consensus seems to acknowledge that Kozuka deserved to beat Mroz (because of his spins, steps, jump GOE/extra jump in the bonus period, and deservedly superior PCS), but that Mroz deserved to beat Joubert and Verner on TES (because he landed all of his jumps, which were overall harder than both Verner and Joubert).

    Questioning the UR calls on Joubert's 4T and Verner's 3A doesn't necessarily mean questioning their placements. I really don't like how <, <<, and e can be applied inconsistently, but I think the placements were still pretty fair. Joubert might have deserved bronze over Verner, but maybe not.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    3S+1Lo<<+2S

    I assume this means that the middle jump was supposed to be a 2 loop and was downgraded to a 1 loop? Because I don't see how a 1 loop can be downgraded to anything (it's barely 1/2 a revolution to begin with).

    Or was this supposed to be one of those new half-loop sequences that they are allowing this year?
    I assume it was a half-loop sequence, because how else can you do a sal after a sal? The 3S+1Lo<< might mean the 3S part is downgraded?

  3. #123
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Yes, but let's not forget some of the same people whined for quite a while that the quad and 3A should be worth more.
    So this younger skater with low pcs beats their favorites on TES

    Gotta love skating fans. Let's make the quad worth even more and Reynolds will be the next WC.
    With respect to Mroz and kudos to him for the jumps-by the way he didnt win over any favorite of mine , Kozuka won ,-he is more boring and uncolored than Pfeiffer and I didnt think this was possible, especially the sp, one more skate like this and I will start a campaign to bring back Lysacek.

  4. #124
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    I finally figured out why Brandon Mroz's skating irritates me - his hands, the way his hands open and move. I'm about to call his skating flamboyant because of his hands. He is a great jumper, and he has some artistry. But his hands made me dislike him, too shame.

    Brian ...

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Please USA bring back EVAN LYSACEK, whom knows how to win, how to get every single point out of the COP to a fault.

    He would study it until he knew it by heart, every little double jump added, every little miniscule spin, every step, every sequence, jumps at the end of the program for bonus points, et al. Add to that he has the mental toughness & consistency of the very best!

    Evan, come back, the USA needs you, please! Seriously, if the USA wants to win they need Evan Lysacek, the 2010 Olympic Mens Champion in Figure Skating.
    Seriously, let the guy enjoy his life. This is not a patriotic duty, he's done enough for USA skating. And what is wrong if Japan takes the cake in men like in women? Right now is their turn.

  6. #126
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    Joubert's new FS program actually comes across pretty well when you see it live. I would like to see what the judges do when he skates it cleanly and with conviction. He definitely needs to look at getting some additional levels and COP points on non-jump elements, and should be capable of tweaking this program and executing.

    As for Joubert's FS 4T, I was there, and in real-time, I thought it looked underrotated. Mroz's 4T was clearly rotated. I find no conspiracy or reason to disagree with the way the final placements ended up. I thought it was close for bronze between Verner and Joubert, but last night, Verner--technically and performance-wise--worked his material somewhat better than Joubert did with his.

  7. #127
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Joubert's Quad was underrotated but it should have received +GOE.

    Mroz's Quad WAS underrotated in the SP as well and didn't get called. Funny you mentioned seeing a toe-axel, Joe, because Mroz does it on his Quad more than Joubert does.

    I think Joubert is really challenging himself with these new programs. The choreography is perhaps the most detailed he has ever had. While that's good to see, he looks like he's trying to copy Lambiel in the SP and in the LP the music seems to overwhelm him a bit (although hopefully that can be worked out in time). I do think he got screwed over here. The issue with the spins is silly. His spins are not worse than most others'. But the awful rules demand that levels in spins is more important than GOE, so he got unfairly slammed there.

    Mroz is soooo boring. Weak skating skills, little connection to the music, lacking expression, lacking speed, and small jumps. I suppose he did deserve the Silver for doing a clean program with a Quad and all the other highest difficulty jumps.

    Joubert should have taken Bronze over Verner. I don't see much of value in Verner's program. Just some superficial poses that aren't all that cool and a really ineffective cut of music. I did like the second footwork sequence. But otherwise? Eh. Joubert's program has much more nuance and was also technically more difficult.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    but to suggest there was unfairness going on, that means you are willing to talk about it. Maybe just not see the others' reasonings?
    I was sure that someone would tell me... But well, maybee I´m not willing to dicuss with people who still believe in fairness.

  9. #129
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Also, I'm immensely disappointed with Kozuka's programs.

    He had such magic in his skating last year. Now watch the judges give him tons of credit this year for dull programs after ignoring him at the Olympics for far superior programs.

    Joubert honestly had the best choreography!

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    On the protocols Joubert has

    3S+1Lo<<+2S

    I assume this means that the middle jump was supposed to be a 2 loop and was downgraded to a 1 loop? Because I don't see how a 1 loop can be downgraded to anything (it's barely 1/2 a revolution to begin with).

    Or was this supposed to be one of those new half-loop sequences that they are allowing this year?
    If you watch that jump "element" that joubert did, it is obvious that he stepped out of the first jump (3S). Stepping out made him land now on his left foot and face almost foward (i.e. about 180-degree rotated after the landing of the first jump) but the rotational momentum allowed him to keep turning while still on his left foot to complete one full rotation, giving him the chance to add a salcow. So the chances are, he probably planned to do 3S-2T or 3S-3T but the unexpected stepout made him change it into 3S-1Lo-2S "combo" on the spot. As you see the stepout was about 180 degrees short of a half-loop so the protocol is 1LO<<.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Eh, if they really wanted to make a rule for Kevin Reynolds, they'd get rid of that pesky axel requirement in both the SP and LP.
    No, I'm serious, after thinking it over these past few days I've come to the definitive conclusion that this new rule change which took place this past summer that finally allows a Male Skater to do TWO quads in the SP was specifically written with Kevin Reynolds in mind (to give him an edge).

    And the same goes for the new rule change that now allows a Female Skater to do a 3A in the SP (to give Mao Asada an edge).

    My hat is off to Canada & Japan, the two superpowers in figure skating this cyclic period, for introducing these changes.

    Now it is up to the skaters to come through, even the best laid plans do not always work out, the cream always rises to the top.

    MAY THE BEST SKATER WIN!

  12. #132
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    I finally get to watch Joubert's LP. I thought he must have been really, really bad on it. Can't believe that with this skating, he could finish off the podium. His LP choreography was very bad for sure, but ...

    Like Kozuka's skating! And happy for him that he won.

    However, I have a feeling that men's skating choreography are generally going down to the ladies' level with music seems becoming a background noise.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-07-2010 at 03:31 PM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Mroz is soooo boring. Weak skating skills, little connection to the music, lacking expression, lacking speed, and small jumps. I suppose he did deserve the Silver for doing a clean program with a Quad and all the other highest difficulty jumps.

    Joubert should have taken Bronze over Verner. I don't see much of value in Verner's program. Just some superficial poses that aren't all that cool and a really ineffective cut of music. I did like the second footwork sequence. But otherwise? Eh. Joubert's program has much more nuance and was also technically more difficult.
    I didn't think Mroz was too boring, sure he's not a natural performer but I thought his landing all the big jumps helped make the routine more exciting and energetic.

    I think bronze was close between Joubert and Verner, but I actually think Verner was better than Joubert in the FS, I mean, he was clean to the blind eye while Joubert had some obvious slip ups. I also think Verner did a better job selling his choreography and that his step sequences were better than Joubert's, they both need to work on spins but I'm sure they will, difficult spins don't seem too hard to master. I was mostly just thrilled to see Verner delivering a solid long program without a bunch of pops and falls, what a relief after last season. Also, the crowd seemed to enjoy his performance much more than Joubert's. I think Joubert can make his program work but it will just take awhile.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Joubert's Quad was underrotated but it should have received +GOE.

    Mroz's Quad WAS underrotated in the SP as well and didn't get called. Funny you mentioned seeing a toe-axel, Joe, because Mroz does it on his Quad more than Joubert does.

    I think Joubert is really challenging himself with these new programs. The choreography is perhaps the most detailed he has ever had. While that's good to see, he looks like he's trying to copy Lambiel in the SP and in the LP the music seems to overwhelm him a bit (although hopefully that can be worked out in time). I do think he got screwed over here. The issue with the spins is silly. His spins are not worse than most others'. But the awful rules demand that levels in spins is more important than GOE, so he got unfairly slammed there.

    Mroz is soooo boring. Weak skating skills, little connection to the music, lacking expression, lacking speed, and small jumps. I suppose he did deserve the Silver for doing a clean program with a Quad and all the other highest difficulty jumps.

    Joubert should have taken Bronze over Verner. I don't see much of value in Verner's program. Just some superficial poses that aren't all that cool and a really ineffective cut of music. I did like the second footwork sequence. But otherwise? Eh. Joubert's program has much more nuance and was also technically more difficult.
    Well put

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Last week some of the same people were complaining that Chan should not have won because he made mistakes on a few jumps.

    This week they are complaining because Mroz, who skated clean got more points than a couple of their favorites who made a few sloppy mistakes.
    First of all, Chan FELL on TWO jumps in the SP, and then fell again on footwork, supposedly his strength. He won because he was much, much too highly marked in the SP, and that gave him a huge cushion so he could once again skate a messy FS with a fall and several wonky jumps, and still come out on top.

    Mroz skated a clean FS with a quad and two 3As in a competition where he was the only one who DID skate a completely clean FS. Sure, he's far from the most exciting skater in the world, but he delivered the goods when it counted. Mroz didn't give the callers any reason to ding his elements, and the judges appropriately kept his PCS scores on the low side. Joubert and Verner got called on their many mistakes and the judges weren't inclined to give them the huge PCS that Chan got on home ice.

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