How would you describe an ELITE skater of today? | Golden Skate

How would you describe an ELITE skater of today?

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think an elite skater or couples skater of today is one who has been in several competitions and has proven themselves to be podium potential by talent and not by luck.

There are many competitors in each comp but only a few are elite. Those skaters are the ones challenging for podium positions. The others, and the newbies, should be reviewed as potential.

Off the bat, I would say Joubert is still an elite skater, but I would not say Fumie is. Of course, Fumie at one time was an elite skater.

Todays batch who did not retire after the Olys, and still considered to be ELITE: in addition to Joubert, would be Takahashi, Abbott, Chan, Kozuka, Plushenko(?); and for the Ladies: Kostner, Asada, Lepisto, Leonova, Kim.

For Pairs there would be: Pang and Tong, Dube/Davison, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Kavaguti/Smirnov, and maybe Zhang/Zhang.

For Ice Dance, there is Davis/White, Cappelini/LaNotte, the Shibutanis, Pechalat/Borzat, The Kerrs, Virtue/Moir(?)

There are many fine CHALLENGERS not yet Elite. Will there be changes after the Worlds?
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
I would not consider Leonova elite by any means, or the Shibutanis (they've only just burst onto the senior scene!)
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
If the part of the equation as stated by the topic is "talent" I might think of several Ladies with more talent than Leonova.
But there are different types of talent.

Even many of Evan's detractors might admit he has a talent for competing. I mention competitive abilty because that along with talent/skill is part of what gets a skater onto podiums.

Miki is one to consider. She has proven again and again that she has the necessary talent and competitive abilty to make GP podiums. She was also World champion and has a WBM.

Consistency - part of competitive abilty - plays a role. Rachael Flatt has shown a degree of consistency and I would also consider her an above average competitor.

An interesting question but depending how one views it not so easy to answer.
Mirai appears to have alot of talent but so far as a senior has not shown the consistency to win Intl senior medals.

What if we look at it this way: is a clean Mirai going to beat a clean Lepisto?

Caro is an interesting skater to consider. Clean she is undoubtably an elite skater judging by talent and skill. As a competitor, her consistency has not been good enough to win medals equal to her talent level.

Alissa is another one - we saw her almost clean at SC and her score was decent. If someone asked me who has more talent, Alena or Alissa I would answer Alissa. But that might just be nationalism or my preference for more lyrical skating.

If I thought about Tomas and Jeremy it would be tougher. Both have terrific qualities and are very talented. They should always be on podiums or challenging for them. But too often they are not. Is it their talent/skill level or is it their abilty to compete?
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Shibutanis should be off the ice dance list. So should Capellini LaNotte, at least for now. Faiella & Scali should be on it. So should Crone/Poirier.

On the up and comers list, include Shibutanis, Chock/Zuerlein, Paul/Islam, Weaver/Pojel, Bobrova/Soloviev, Monko/Khaliavin and Ilinykh & Katsapalov.

On the ? list:
Virtue / Moir, depending only on whether they decide to compete or not
Capellini/Lanotte, depending on whatever is causing the upheaval that caused them to do so badly at NHK, quit their coaches in France, and move back to Italy, and whether they decide to continue competing.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
I think an elite skater or couples skater of today is one who has been in several competitions and has proven themselves to be podium potential by talent and not by luck.

LOL, all except two teams at the GPF in pairs don't quailfy. Most of those teams medaled because the elite skaters of worlds last year are either injured or can't skate yet. Worlds 2011 will be a wake up callfor all those teams who thought they were getting good vs getting lucky.
 

merrywidow

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
I'd say that today Oda is more of an elite skater than Joubert. I don't see any Kwans or Yu Na Kim's among the list of ladies. Asada has been there but is she still? To me an elite skater is someone who will still be remembered & talked about 15 or 20 years from now. And someone who is competitive with that Olympic champ but not quite at their level, I'd say they are elite too. Elite skaters contribute to the sport & are not to be found among those who consistently have a fall or have poor technique/poor style. Think John Curry/Toller Cranston. Curry the great champion artist & Cranston the great innovator/stylist.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
To answer the original question (i.e. How would you describe an ELITE skater of today?), I have one answer:

They must be part of the last group to skate, simple as that.

Seriously, there's a HUGE difference between the last group and everyone else. And to be perfectly honest, blunt, I would prefer to see the last group to skate and nothing else. It would save me the slight boredom of having to watch the other groups.

Even at the 2010 Olympics, me & my baby niece were getting a little bored and almost fell asleep watching the first couple of groups.

Omg, and then when the final group appeared, it is indescribable. Nothing compares to that. They are far & away thee E-L-I-T-E.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Have the definition of elite skater changed from before? I thought elite means you're among the top ten and have consistently medaled in the last few years.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I thought everyone who arrives in a competition is an elite skater, at least in his country! With some exceptions I always enjoy the first groups, at Euros at least I saw them all, and if you dont know the detailed rules (me for ice dance) everyone looked wonderful :)
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I always think of elite skaters as the podium contenders and the almost-contenders, esp. the young ones who are expected to be contenders soon. Miki88's definition and Nadine's work too.

It's a hopeless effort to try to pin down such a subjective, social word. The elite are those who move in a certain world and live a lifestyle that the rest don't, i.e. the podium or its near vicinity! As Seniorita says, all who compete in the top competition are part of that world and share that lifestyle too.
 

Figure88

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
A skater who has medaled at Worlds. As a result, he/she probably ends up with a significant score boost, particularly in the PCS, the socalled "reputation points", which can sometimes be insurmountable. Judges probably do weigh a skater’s presentation skills in factoring the PCS but probably no more than a couple of points. I think it's mostly reputation. It’s really no coincidence that the highest PCS earners this season are all former/current Worlds medalists---notably Takahashi, Chan, Kostner, Ando etc
 

doubleflutz

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
As much as I love and adore him, I do not think Jeremy really should be considered elite. We'll see how he does this season, but I think you're missing an important factor for determining "talent and not by luck": his mental skills as a competitor. He is still a big question mark in that regard, I think, especially in the eyes of the judges, as unfair as that is. In the same way, I think Oda deserves to be on the list of the "elite" for men. Even without a world medal, he's been much more consistent as an international competitor than Jeremy has.

Shibutanis are challengers, not elite, and Faiella/Scali should be considered "elite" - maybe second-tier elite, but everyone who isn't V/M and D/W is either second-tier or only a challenger at this point. They are just far and away so much better than the competition.

In ladies, the only true elites are Yu-Na (assuming she will stick to her word and show up at Worlds this year), Miki (love her or hate her), and Mao if she is successful in getting her jumps back, whether she reworks the technique or not. Maybe Joannie, if she keeps competing.
 

doubleflutz

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
LOL, all except two teams at the GPF in pairs don't quailfy. Most of those teams medaled because the elite skaters of worlds last year are either injured or can't skate yet. Worlds 2011 will be a wake up callfor all those teams who thought they were getting good vs getting lucky.

Which two teams?
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Pang/Tong and Savchenko/Szolkowy. Everyone else in the GPF will have made it because 4 of the top six (or 5 of 7) teams from last season aren't competing. Though I think Barazova/Larionov might have made it on tie-break.
 
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Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I thought everyone who arrives in a competition is an elite skater, at least in his country!

This is the closest to my thought. I thought elite skaters are those who compete at the national level and international level competitions.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Thank you ImaginaryPogue, many teams who are going to the GPF are there because D/D, K/S, Z/Z are injured and V/M and M/T are gone and M/B and V/T can't compete yet. B/L are the only team who had a shot, the rest were gifted like no teams have ever been gifted before. Not just at the GPF but many of them medaled this season who would have never medaled or won before becase this was a very weak pairs field.

At last years Worlds would you have ever though 3-4 of those teams would be in the GPF? What would the first question be? "What happened to ........ (fill in the name with whoever)"
 
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MrScroogeMcDuck

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
This is the closest to my thought. I thought elite skaters are those who compete at the national level and international level competitions.

Yes, this is how I've always understood it. An elite skater is one of the best in his country and competes internationally. I never understood the group of elite skaters to be limited to only the few who medal at worlds or the Olympics, but it seems some have a very different definition though, so maybe it's my understanding that's been messed up all this time.

For example, Ryan Bradley has not had great international success in terms of medals and he just barely missed making the Olympic team, but he's generally recognized as an elite skater, because he's been at worlds, on the Grand Prix, etc. While this makes it a much larger group than just those of Yu-Na caliber, it is still quite an "elite" group when one thinks of all those who are competing at all the different levels.
 
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Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I never understood the group of elite skaters to be limited to only the few who medal at worlds or the Olympics, but it seems some have a very different definition though, so maybe it's my understanding that's been messed up all this time.

That's what I thought.:biggrin: So I hope to get the real definition of the word ELITE.
 
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gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think there are probably at least 3 different definitions of "elite" that each make sense in different contexts.

1) Competitive athlete as opposed to recreational skater, or lower-level child competitor who is training seriously and may or may not prove to be capable of reaching the upper ranks. I'd say that the cutoff here for singles skaters would be landing double axels, making serious attempts at triples at least in practice, and ability to do all the basic turns and steps (counters, choctaws, etc.) and stroking with decent edges and speed and flow, worthy of Skating Skills scores in the 4s by today's scale. This would include above-average novices and average juniors, as well as most seniors.

2) World-class. Anyone worthy of competing at a senior international level -- what kind of assignments they actually get, if any, may depend on what country they compete in/for. I'd expect some triple jumps (at least two different for ladies, maybe four for men) and/or something extra elsewhere, at least some PCS worthy of 5s or better. Also includes teenagers with the skills to do well in JGP events.

3) World-class elite. Skaters who have several areas where they are notably stronger than the above -- 4-5 triples for ladies, 5-6 for men, and fairly good consistency in delivering them, maybe difficult combos or quads; very strong skating skills and/or very strong presentation (worth PCS of high 6s or better), good steps or spins or highlight moves to gain attention and points from judges, good choreography -- enough skills and consistency to put the skater in contention for medals at Grand Prix events or top 10 at ISU championships on a regular basis. One medal might be a fluke, but medals or top-5 finishes event after event, year after year would not be.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
The question of Elite is not so much about skating skills since eligible senior skaters had to show that prior to their entry into the Senior Division at least ALL those skaters of what we are calling elite.

Since that was already part of the very old 6.0 system wherein even Speed was judged around the circles, it amazes me that it is soley in PC, and not in Tech. A good Tech skater is an elite skater, imo. A winner is one who combines good technique with Tech and performance. What we are seeing in this and other threads are fans calling a skater with excellent skating skills and omitting the implication that other competitors do not rise to that proper level. This is hogwash. In CoP we measure by points. If a skater has problems with the elements but demonstrates good skating skills should he win the competion? Can we not use the 'catch phrase': there are other things to consider. Or is Skating Skills the only component to be judged?
 
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