Medalists in major events for Women- you be the judge

Who do you think should have been the medalists in major skating events for the women from 1992 to today. Here would be mine:


2010 Olympics:

Gold- Yu Na Kim
Silver- Mao Asada
Bronze- Joannie Rochette (barely)


2009 Worlds:

Gold- Yu Na Kim
Silver- Mao Asada
Bronze- Joannie Rochette

Miki's PCS were a joke.


2008 Worlds:

Gold- Yu Na Kim
Silver- Mao Asada
Bronze- Yukari Nakano

Really nobody deserved it except sort of Nakano but her technik issues are too much to overlook. Kostner was a joke.


2007 Worlds:

Gold- Mao Asada
Silver- Yu Na Kim
Bronze- Miki Ando

Mao lost the gold not only by mistakes but some silly loopholes in COP, -3 in GOE on her combo as if she fell due to the single loop, some extreme losses of points on a couple slight URs or slightly two footed jumps in the LP. Miki Ando while much improved this year still is just a jumper compared to the other 2 and her jumps dont have the best quality really either.


2006 Olympics:

Gold- Shizuka Arawaka
Silver- Sasha Cohen
Bronze- Irina Slutskaya

Sasha should have been closer to Shizuka who was overmarked in the SP and Suguri should have been closer to Slutskaya. Cant really see changing any of the positions though.


2006 Worlds:

Gold- Kimmie Meissner
Silver- Fumie Suguri
Bronze- Sasha Cohen

I guess Kimmie deserved it but her scores particularly PCS were too high.


2005 Worlds:

Gold- Irina Slutskaya
Silver- Sasha Cohen
Bronze- Fumie Suguri

I thought Fumie's LP was way better than Kwan or Kostner honestly. I know she fell in the short but I woudl have had her ahead overall.


2004 Worlds:

Gold- Sasha Cohen
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Shizuka Arakawa

I had Kwan 2nd to Cohen in the short and 2nd to Shizuka in the long. Shizuka's short program was mediocre with not very well done elements and should have been 6th or 7th behind Cohen, Kwan, Ando, Kostner, Sebeysten, and maybe Suguri. On the other hand her spectacular LP was undermarked and should have had a row of 6.0s compared to Kwan and Cohen (even though Kwan was also quite good) and straight 1st places. Wierd judging overall on her. Cohen gets gold by the factored pionts since even though her LP was uninspired and quite shaky I cant see who deserved to place above her for 3rd in the LP. Maybe Suguri could be placed over Sasha in the LP?


2003 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Elena Sokolova
Bronze- Sasha Cohen

Sasha was screwed in qualifying, she should have won her pool IMO over Kwan who stumbled on a jump and Sokolova who jumped extremely well as she did all Worlds but nothing else. Fumie lucked out majorly to be in such a weak pool, she would have been destroyed by Kwan, Sokolova, or Cohen in the Q round with that performance. Fumie's SP wasnt that good with a shaky combination, weak layback, and other flaws, but Sasha fell in the short and should have been no higher than 5th. Sasha's artistry, spins (other than the one she fell on), and most things she did were so far superior to Sokolova though I might have placed her 2nd in the LP even with the 2 falls considering she also did a triple lutz-triple toe combo which was Sokolova's big edge on the others. Had she skated cleanly I would have placed her 1st in the LP over Kwan with that triple lutz-triple toe combo. I might have put Volchkova on the podium or atleast above Fumie too. Her jumps were the most beautiful in womens skating at the time, and she skated pretty well at these Worlds. If she done them all clean and done the triple lutz-triple toe in the short too I would have had her over Sokolova for sure since Sokolova was only jumps, and her jumps dont have the quality of Victoria.


2002 Olympics:

Gold- Irina Slutskaya
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Sarah Hughes

I felt Slutskaya should have won the SP which would have given her the gold overall even if Hughes was still 4th in the short. In reality though Hughes's SP was mediocre and should have been only 7th, she was held up majorly in the short and never should have won the gold even though she was the clearly rightful winner of the LP (under 6.0). Her LP unimpressed me but placed 2nd since Kwan fell. Sasha wasnt that good a skater yet IMO and wouldnt have even been in contention had the Olympics been outside the U.S. Although her SP was quite good.


2001 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Irina Slutskaya
Bronze- Maria Butyrskaya

Butyrskaya was screwed in the short program where she should have been atleast 3rd. That was the only reason Hughes was able to win the bronze.


2000 Worlds:

Gold- Maria Butyrskaya
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Irina Slutskaya

I had Butyrskaya 2nd in the LP instead of Slutskaya which would have given Maria the gold overall. The SP placings were correct IMO, as were the Q round placings.


1999 Worlds:

Gold- Maria Butyrskaya
Silver- Tatiana Malinina
Bronze- Anna Rechnio

Horrible judging IMO. Kwan was majorly gifted in the short program though had a very good long and IMO deserved 2nd in it. Rechnio was undermarked in both programs, and way undermarked in the short. Soldatova was overscored, she looked like a junior skater, and definitely benefited from that she was the golden up and comer of the Russian federation at the time (look what happened to her career when she changed countries).
Gusmeroli was technically sloppy by then.


1998 Olympics:

Gold- Tara Lipinski
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Maria Butysrkaya

I though Chen was overmarked technically in the LP. Her jumps and spins were so poor compared to the rest of the women by then, even when she completed them.


1998 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Maria Butyrskaya
Bronze- Laetita Hubert

My placings in the short were Kwan-Rechnio-Hubert-Liashenko-Slutskaya-Malinina- Butyrskaya. In the long were Kwan-Butyrskaya-Slutskaya-Hubert-Kwiatkowski-Rechnio


1997 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Irina Slutskaya
Bronze- Tara Lipinski

Tara didnt impress me at all at this point (she improved alot in 98). I thought her SP should have been 4th behind Gusmeroli, Czako, and Kwan (yes even with the step out). Her LP should have been 3rd behind Kwan and Slutskaya.


1996 Worlds:

Gold- Lu Chen
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Maria Butyrskaya

I though Chen was the clear winner. Her artistically was still far and away superior to Michelle at this point IMO even though Michelle had improved alot. And her jumps were better quality and she had more combinations, even if Kwan had an extra triple toe. I found Maria's skating technically weak except for the 98-2000 period, but her artistry was so superior to the other women battling for 3rd.


1995 Worlds:

Gold- Lu Chen
Silver- Surya Bonaly
Bronze- Nicole Bobek

I wouldnt have changed anything about the scoring except having Bonaly behind Kwan in the short.

1994 Olympics:

Gold- Nancy Kerrigan
Silver- Yuka Sato
Bronze- Lu Chen

My placings were short program: Kerrigan-Bonaly-Baiul-Chen-Sato-Witt-Rechnio-
Szewcenko and in the long: Sato-Kerrigan-Chen (or maybe Chen-Kerrigan, wouldnt matter to the overall final results either way)-Baiul-Bonaly-Szewcenko-Harding-Witt


1994 Worlds:

Gold- Yuka Sato
Silver- Surya Bonaly
Bronze- Marina Kiellmann

Bonaly made a fool of herself, she shouldnt have even been close to winning with that performance. Szewcenko was way overscored when she first emerged and Kiellmann with a clean triple lutz, landed triple flip, triple toe-triple toe, and more mature skating should have easily beaten her for the bronze even with the 2 falls near the end (one on a double axel which isnt that important anyway, and another jump which she replaced right after anyhow).


1993 Worlds:

Gold- Surya Bonaly
Silver- Lu Chen
Bronze- Oksana Baiul

Either Bonaly or Chen. No way Baiul.


1992 Olympics:

Gold- Kristi Yamaguchi
Silver- Midori Ito
Bronze- Nancy Kerrigan


1992 Worlds:

Gold- Kristi Yamuguchi
Silver- Lu Chen
Bronze- Laetitia Hubert

Agree with 2002 comments. Irina should have won. The FS would get much more from her as a champion than from Sarah as a champion.

Your analyses are interesting as always. I have to look and process them--not that I would be able to argue any of them, because your knowledge is far deeper than mine. I know you have reasons for everything you put forward.

The ones that fascinated me the most are your podiums for the 1993 Worlds and the 1994 Olympics. No Baiul anywhere! I hope you'll say more.

I remember the general group meltdown of 1993, when everyone but Baiul thudded to the ice and she ended up the world champion. I always thought they'd marked her with the idea of leaving room for the others, and the others flubbed their long programs. (Kerrigan's implosion was especially intense, as I recall.) So they were stuck with this mark they'd given Baiul, which turned out to be the highest one. (I recall she skated early in the flight.) Then, just like that, she had a rep as a champion. In the Olympics I loved her short program (having viewed it again recently, I still find it phenomenal), but I was left cold by her long, principally because I found the music trivial. (And of course at that point many of us were so rooting for Nancy to overcome the attack on her.) I'd love to hear more detail about your thoughts (and those of other posters) on Baiul's long program, so I'd know what to look for.

I did have Baiul winning a bronze at the 93 Worlds so I didnt have her shut out. And the 93 Worlds was actually extremely well skated right up until the final 2 skaters- Kerrigan and Chouinard. Bonaly and Chen followed Baiul's performance with excellent performances, Bonaly's probably her greatest ever. Then Sato skated pretty well but not great, then Kerrigan followed.

My thoughts on her long program? Quite an incomplete program missing many of the major basic components of a well balanced free program. No combination spin, no layback spin, no footwork sequence, no combination jump. Lots of crossovers, lots of mugging and posing, long setups into jumps.

2010 Olympics:

Gold- Yu Na Kim
Silver- Joannie Rochette
Bronze- Mao Asada

2010 Worlds:
(a real shame Joannie wasn't up to competing here; I really think her best could have won gold!)
Gold- Mao Asada
Silver- Yu-Na Kim
Bronze- Cynthia Phaneuf


2009 Worlds:

Gold- Yu Na Kim
Silver- Joannie Rochette
Bronze- Miki Ando

2008 Worlds:

Gold- Mao Asada
Silver- Yu-Na Kim
Bronze- Carolina Kostner

2007 Worlds:

Gold- Miki Ando
Silver- Mao Asada
Bronze- Yu-Na Kim

2006 Olympics:

Gold- Shizuka Arawaka
Silver- Sasha Cohen
Bronze- Irina Slutskaya

2006 Worlds:

Gold- Kimmie Meissner
Silver- Fumie Suguri
Bronze- Sarah Meier

2005 Worlds:

Gold- Irina Slutskaya
Silver- Sasha Cohen
Bronze- Carolina Kostner

2004 Worlds:

Gold- Shizuka Arakawa
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Sasha Cohen

2003 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Elena Sokolova
Bronze- Fumie Suguri

2002 Olympics:

Gold- Irina Slutskaya
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Sarah Hughes

2002 Worlds:

Gold- Irina Slutskaya
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Fumie Suguri

2001 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Irina Slutskaya
Bronze- Maria Butyrskaya

2000 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Maria Butyrskaya
Bronze- Irina Slutskaya

1999 Worlds:

Gold- Maria Butyrskaya
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Tatiana Malinina

1998 Olympics:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Tara Lipinski
Bronze- Maria Butyrskaya

1998 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Maria Butyrskaya
Bronze- Irina Slutskaya

1997 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Tara Lipinski
Bronze- Irina Slutskaya

1996 Worlds:

Gold- Michelle Kwan
Silver- Lu Chen
Bronze- Maria Butyrskaya

1995 Worlds:

Gold- Lu Chen
Silver- Michelle Kwan
Bronze- Nicole Bobek

1994 Olympics:

Gold- Nancy Kerrigan
Silver- Lu Chen
Bronze- Yuka Sato

1994 Worlds:

Gold- Yuka Sato
Silver- Surya Bonaly
Bronze- Tanja Szweczenko

1993 Worlds:

Gold- Surya Bonaly
Silver- Oksana Baiul
Bronze- Lu Chen

1992 Olympics:

Gold- Kristi Yamaguchi (the SP is what won it for her!)
Silver- Midori Ito (the best LP!)
Bronze- Nancy Kerrigan


1992 Worlds:

Gold- Kristi Yamaguchi
Silver- Lu Chen
Bronze- Nancy Kerrigan

Thanks, pangtongfan. I'll look at Oksana's Olympic long program with your comments in mind when I get a chance. (My bad for not remembering that you'd placed Baiul third in 1993 Worlds. Whoops! That's what I get for reading quickly between tasks.)

I know Baiul was praised for the quality of her jumps, but I remember (with my untaught eye) feeling that her stroking was less fluid than Kerrigan's. Nancy always gave me the feeling of smooth power. Part of it was Nancy's age--wasn't she in her twenties by then?--and part of it was her size. She's about five-four, which is tallish for a singles skater, so she skated with muscle rather than with that coltish sprite approach. Also, I never warmed to Oksana's carriage. She seemed to slouch a bit to me, and I always preferred a more erect positioning exemplified by the likes of Yuka Sato, Dorothy Hamill, and Michelle, and now Asada.

I'd forgotten that Chouinard was there in 1993. Such a lovely skater, with both musicality and great jumping skills, but she tended to panic at major competitions. And luck wasn't always with her, either. Remember the terrible moment at the 1994 Olympics, when Harding's drama-queen shoelace malfunction forced Chouinard to skate before she was ready? Just another piece of collateral damage from Harding's misbegotten pursuit of Olympic glory.

Interesting to see people's different opinions. But why is Worlds 2010 left out?
Now looking back at the events, I must say Worlds 1996 is probably my favorite Ladies event, because the top skaters both skated cleanly and to wonderful programs that are considered to be signature pieces now. It was a tough decision but I agree with the judges because MK left more of an impact that night.

miki88 said:

Interesting to see people's different opinions. But why is Worlds 2010 left out?
Now looking back at the events, I must say Worlds 1996 is probably my favorite Ladies event, because the top skaters both skated cleanly and to wonderful programs that are considered to be signature pieces now. It was a tough decision but I agree with the judges because MK left more of an impact that night.

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Good post and please note the respectful difference of opinion.
I thought Lu-Lu was "it" and as hard as a young Kwan tried I thought the results were wrong. But both turned in superb performances - but feel sure if Michelle ahd been skating for China and LuLu for USA the results would have been reversed.

I agree though, as far as the Ladies go it was a great Worlds.

My 2010 Worlds:

Gold- Asada
Silver- Kim
Bronze- Phaneuf

2010 W
G: Mao
S: Miki
B: Laura

2010 O
G: Kim
S: Mao
B: Joannie

2009 W
G: Miki
S: Kim
B: Mao

2008 W
G: Mao
S: Carolina
B: Yukari

2007 W
G: Miki
S: Mao
B: Kim

I don't like Miki, but I thought she deserved it twice. She was so much better than Rochette in 2009 W in both short and long program. She wasn't as good as Kim in the short, but her LP was well choreographed, and executed and she was clean. It was the performance of the night for me.
In 2007, Asada made 2 mistakes, one in the short with the 3flip-3loop combo, the other in the long with the 2A-3toe combo. Had she been clean in either the short or the long program, I would put her first.

I did this thread a couple years ago. Can't wait to hear the arguments you're bound to throw at me.

2010 Worlds
1. Mao Asada
2. Yu-Na Kim
3. Cynthia Phaneuf
(I'd have Lepisto in 6th. I don't get the praise for her at all. She's not a very interesting skater/performer, she's not great in the non-jump areas, and she only did 3 Triples in the LP???)

2010 Olympics
1. Yu-Na Kim
2. Mao Asada
3. Joannie Rochette

2009 Worlds
1. Yu-Na Kim
2. Joannie Rochette
3. Mao Asada
(not a fan of Miki Ando's LP. There wasn't much of a program and it wasn't even in service of the jumps - her jump layout was the easiest out of anyone in the top 5! Miki Ando started taking the Triple Flip out of her LP at this competition and it's never come back, which boggles my mind. How can you call yourself a great jumper when you leave out the 3Flip and don't attempt a Triple-Triple combination???)

2008 Worlds
1. Mao Asada
2. Yukari Nakano
3. Yu-Na Kim
(was such a disgrace that Kostner was on the podium after that performance)

2007 Worlds
1. Miki Ando
2. Mao Asada
3. Yu-Na Kim
(I constantly go back and forth between Ando and Asada here. On the one hand, some of Miki's spin positions are an embarrassment and her LP is choreographically lacking. On the other hand, Asada made a big mistake in the SP. It's too bad Yu-Na had to fall twice in the LP on important jumps, she was the best skater here)

2006 Worlds
1. Kimmie Meissner
2. Sarah Meier (Her LP was more interesting than Fumie's and she was a bit stronger technically as well)
3. Fumie Suguri

2006 Olympics
1. Shizuka Arakawa
2. Sasha Cohen
3. Irina Slutskaya

2005 Worlds
1. Irina Slutskaya
2. Sasha Cohen
3. Carolina Kostner

2004 Worlds
1. Shizuka Arakawa
2. Sasha Cohen
3. Michelle Kwan
(The time violation for Kwan in the SP is whatever. The more important point is how the actual performance was affected because she DID end the program after the music, which is distracting. I'd actually have her 5th in the SP because of that, considering the higher tech of Carolina Koster - who should have been 2nd in the SP with a lovely performance - and Miki Ando. Arakawa would be 4th in the SP. Her tech wasn't better than Kwan's but it was a great performance)

2003 Worlds
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Elena Sokolova
3. Sasha Cohen

2002 Worlds
1. Fumie Suguri (Surprisingly, I feel she had the best presentation and deserved to win on that mark)
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Irina Slutskaya

2002 Olympics
1. Sarah Hughes
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Sasha Cohen
(sorry, but Slutskaya's LP ranks 4th with me. It was artistically the weakest out of anyone in the top 5 and she didn't have enough tech to make up for it after that mistake on the 3Flip.)

2001 Worlds
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Irina Slutskaya
3. Sarah Hughes (Hughes gave a very nice performance in the LP and deserved to be ahead of Butyrskaya, who was tentative and a bit weaker technically too)

2000 Worlds
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Vanessa Gusmeroli (her Long Program is better tech and artistry than Butyrskaya and WAY better artistry than Slutskaya)
3. Irina Slutskaya (not a good program but definitely much better tech than Butyrskaya)

1999 Worlds (I'd rank the LP as 1. Butyrskaya, 2. Kwan, 3. Malinina, 4. Gusmeroli, 5. Soldatova, 6. Rechnio...Gusmeroli takes Bronze because I'd have her way higher than Malinina in the SP. Also, about Rechnio, I see why some praise her so highly...but the program was empty. Those strong edges and speed were wasted)
1. Maria Butyrskaya
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Vanessa Gusmeroli

1998 Worlds
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Irina Slutskaya
3. Maria Butyrskaya

1998 Olympics (The best Ladies podium ever. They all deserved a 5.9 for presentation)
1. Tara Lipinski
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Lu Chen

1997 Worlds
1. Tara Lipinski (Kwan's mistake in the SP doesn't really matter, Lipinski legitimately beat Kwan in the LP - this is a delightful program, even if her pure skating ability is below Kwan's, and her stronger tech gives her the edge)
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Vanessa Gusmeroli (deserved 1st in the SP)

1996 Worlds
TIE 1. Lu Chen and Michelle Kwan (I HAVE to)
3. Irina Slutskaya

1995 Worlds
1. Lu Chen
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Nicole Bobek
(I'd have Bonaly 5th in the SP and probably 3rd in the LP, although it's difficult to choose between Kwan and Bonaly for 2nd in the LP. I think Bonaly had more interesting movements and interpretation, but Kwan's basic skating and posture was already better than Bonaly's. In terms of the tech Kwan did 7 Triples, although no difficult combinations. A couple landings were shaky, but essentially clean. Bonaly had more power in her jumps and tried difficult combinations, although the 3Flip-3Toe was massively underrotated, the 3Toe-3Sal was also cheated, and the second Lutz was two-footed. In the end it's Kwan's sublime expression during her spread eagle towards the end that probably wins me over to giving her 2nd)

1994 Worlds
1. Yuka Sato
2. Surya Bonaly
3. Marina Kielmann (I'd put her 2nd in the LP, in fact. Even though her technical mistakes were bigger than Bonaly's, it was a much better performance. Bonaly gets the Silver because of her SP)

1994 Olympics
1. Nancy Kerrigan
2. Lu Chen
3. Oksana Baiul

1993 Worlds
1. Lu Chen (she had the best mix of technical and artistry here)
2. Surya Bonaly
3. Oksana Baiul (deserved 1st in the SP but her LP was very overrated; I would have placed her 4th behind Yuka Sato in that segment)

1992 Worlds
1. Kristi Yamaguchi
2. Lu Chen
3. Laetitia Hubert

1992 Olympics
1. Kristi Yamaguchi
2. Midori Ito
3. Nancy Kerrigan (I'd have her 4th in the LP behind Lu Chen, but her great SP keeps her ahead overall)

1991 Worlds
1. Kristi Yamaguchi
2. Tonya Harding
3. Nancy Kerrigan

1990 Worlds
1. Midori Ito
2. Jill Trenary
3. Kristi Yamaguchi

1989 Worlds
1. Midori Ito
2. Claudia Leistner
3. Kristi Yamaguchi

1988 Worlds
1. Midori Ito
2. Katarina Witt
3. Elizabeth Manley

1988 Olympics
1. Midori Ito (she should have easily won both the SP and the LP. In fact, she is so far ahead of everyone in the LP that nobody even deserved to be ranked 2nd in that segment, LOL!)
2. Katarina Witt
3. Elizabeth Manley
(also, Jill Trenary should have been in 4th over Debi Thomas)

1987 Worlds
1. Katarina Witt (her LP here is by far her best performance ever)
2. Midori Ito (1st in the SP, 2nd in the LP)
3. Caryn Kadavy

1986 Worlds
1. Elizabeth Manley (deserved 1st in the LP. Had the best mix of technical and presentation here)

2. Debi Thomas (I'd have her 4th in the LP but her 1st in the SP holds her up to this position because Ito and Witt should have been in 6th/7th there after their mistakes)

3. Midori Ito (deserved 2nd in the LP. Her tech, even with a mistake on the Lutz and doubling the last 3Sal, was still the best here)

(This leaves Katarina Witt off the podium. Shocking, but she disappointed in the SP and her LP only deserved 3rd)

1985 Worlds (a shame that Midori Ito couldn't attend)
1. Katarina Witt
2. Kira Ivanova
3. Tiffany Chin

1984 Worlds
1. Katarina Witt
2. Elaine Zayak
3. Midori Ito

1984 Olympics
1. Tiffany Chin (she was the best in both the SP and LP)
2. Katarina Witt
3. Elaine Zayak

1983 Worlds
1. Rosalynn Sumners
2. Katarina Witt
3. Claudia Leistner

1982 Worlds
1. Elaine Zayak
2. Katarina Witt
3. Claudia Leistner

1981 Worlds
1. Denise Biellmann
2. Elaine Zayak
3. Katarina Witt

1980 Worlds
1. Emi Watanabe
2. Linda Fratianne
3. Anett Potzsch

1980 Olympics
1. Denise Biellmann
2. Linda Fratianne
3. Anett Potzsch

Again, I can't argue yea or nay in detail to any of your listings, but it's sure nice to see, for example, Ito at the top of the Olympic podium in 1988, and Chen Lu and Michelle Kwan in a tie in 1996. (I remember yearning for a tie in the 1998 Olympics, myself.) I like the idea of Tiffany Chin winning in 1984, too.

Blades of Passion said:

1988 Worlds
1. Midori Ito
2. Katarina Witt
3. Elizabeth Manley

1988 Olympics
1. Midori Ito (she should have easily won both the SP and the LP. In fact, she is so far ahead of everyone in the LP that nobody even deserved to be ranked 2nd in that segment, LOL!)
2. Katarina Witt
3. Elizabeth Manley
(also, Jill Trenary should have been in 4th over Debi Thomas)

1987 Worlds
1. Katarina Witt (her LP here is by far her best performance ever)
2. Midori Ito (1st in the SP, 2nd in the LP)
3. Caryn Kadavy

1986 Worlds
1. Elizabeth Manley (deserved 1st in the LP. Had the best mix of technical and presentation here)
2. Debi Thomas (I'd have her 4th in the LP but her 1st in the SP holds her up to this position because Ito and Witt should have been in 6th/7th there after their mistakes)
3. Midori Ito (deserved 2nd in the LP. Her tech, even with a mistake on the Lutz and doubling the last 3Sal, was still the best here)

(This leaves Katarina Witt off the podium. Shocking, but she disappointed in the SP and her LP only deserved 3rd)

1985 Worlds (a shame that Midori Ito couldn't attend)
1. Katarina Witt
2. Kira Ivanova
3. Tiffany Chin

1984 Worlds
1. Katarina Witt
2. Elaine Zayak
3. Midori Ito

1984 Olympics
1. Tiffany Chin (she was the best in both the SP and LP)
2. Katarina Witt
3. Elaine Zayak

1983 Worlds
1. Rosalynn Sumners
2. Katarina Witt
3. Claudia Leistner

1982 Worlds
1. Elaine Zayak
2. Katarina Witt
3. Claudia Leistner

1981 Worlds
1. Denise Biellmann
2. Elaine Zayak
3. Katarina Witt

1980 Worlds
1. Denise Biellmann
2. Emi Watanabe
3. Linda Fratianne

1980 Olympics
1. Denise Biellmann
2. Linda Fratianne
3. Anett Potzsch

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I take it compulsory figures have now gone extinct a whole decade earlier and even if they have Denise Biellmann gold at the 1980 Worlds?!? Did you see her free skate at those Worlds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZOYGmSGSA8

Debbie Wilkes "I think even the 5.4s are generous."

And if figures are gone altogether why is Witt above Manley at the 88 Olympics?

2000 Worlds
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Vanessa Gusmeroli (her Long Program is better tech and artistry than Butyrskaya and WAY better artistry than Slutskaya)
3. Irina Slutskaya (not a good program but definitely much better tech than Butyrskaya)

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There is no way Gusmeroli could have medalled. She needed to beat Slutskaya by 4 places in the LP to pass her and Butyrskaya by 5 places. Keeping in mind Slutskaya and Butyrskaya won their qualifying pools where Gusmeroli was a disaesterous 7th, and the short program results were: 1)Butyrskaya, 2)Slutskaya, 3)Butyrskaya, 4)Gusmeroli or Hughes (forget which). Or are you now eliminating the qualifying round altogether just like figures?

On another note Dick Button thought Gusmeroli was well overscored and only beat Hughes for 4th since it was in France.

Olympia said:

Again, I can't argue yea or nay in detail to any of your listings, but it's sure nice to see, for example, Ito at the top of the Olympic podium in 1988, and Chen Lu and Michelle Kwan in a tie in 1996. (I remember yearning for a tie in the 1998 Olympics, myself.) I like the idea of Tiffany Chin winning in 1984, too.

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Chin was definitely the best free skater at the 84 Olympics. Definitely better than Witt. Without figures Sumners wouldnt have deserved any medal with her performances there was Zayak was also better than her.

Blades of Passion said:

(I'd have Lepisto in 6th. I don't get the praise for her at all. She's not a very interesting skater/performer, she's not great in the non-jump areas, and she only did 3 Triples in the LP???)

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I think Lepistö is one of the skaters you don't really get unless you've seen them skating live. Her speed is crazy, and the control over it. Also the edges are so evident as are her performing abilities. Somehow the TV seems to take a lot away from her. (sorry, very off topic)

For me, the only podium I feel was kinda iffy was the 96 worlds. I would've given Chen Lu higher artistic points than Kwan. But to be honest, I am no expert.

2010 WC
Asada 198
Kim 186
Kostner 178 (home factor)

2010 Olympics
Kim 210
Asada 202
Rochette 193 (home factor, otherwise Ando)

2009 WC (the ranking and scores would be like this under the new rule)
Kim 198
Ando 190
Asada 188
Rochette 186

2008 WC
Asada
Kostner
Nakano

2007 WC
Ando
Asada
Kim (Asian factor, otherwise Meissner)

2006 WC
no change

2006 Olympics
Arakawa
Slutskaya
Cohen

2005 WC
no change

2004 WC
Arakawa
Cohen
Ando

2003 WC
no change

2002 WC
no change

2002 Olympics
Hughes (home factor)
Slutskaya
Cohen

2001 WC
Slutskaya
Kwan
Hughes

pangtongfan said:

I take it compulsory figures have now gone extinct a whole decade earlier

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Not extinct, they just don't count for anything but determining skate order of the later performances. Or I suppose they can count for 5% of the total score, which doesn't change any of my rankings.

Actually, though, Midori Ito COULD conceivably win 1998 Olympics even with figures being worth 30%. If she is 10th in figures, 1st in SP, 1st in LP, that gives her a win in a tiebreaker over Katarina Witt being 4th in figures, 5th in SP, 3rd in LP. And Elizabeth Manley would get the Bronze after being 6th in figures, 6th in SP, and 2nd in LP.

pangtongfan said:

Denise Biellmann gold at the 1980 Worlds?!? Did you see her free skate at those Worlds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZOYGmSGSA8

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Oh, hmm, I didn't remember Biellmann bombing at 1980 Worlds. It's been a very long time since I had watched the performances from that year. Thanks for the heads up.

In that case, Emi Watanabe wins 1980 Worlds and becomes the first Japanese person to win a Gold in figure skating. SWEET!

pangtongfan said:

And if figures are gone altogether why is Witt above Manley at the 88 Olympics?

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Well, first of all, Manley only deserved 6th in the SP in comparison to 3rd for Witt (Witt COULD conceivably be 5th as I said above, she was definitely beaten by Ito and Kadavy, and it wouldn't be odd to put Debi Thomas and Jill Trenary over her as well if you prefer their styles). I might not even give Manley the win the LP, though. I'd probably mark her .1 higher on tech but have Witt .1 higher on presentation. The tech mark was actually the tiebreaker back then, but we don't have to listen to that. Or, actually, I could just give them the same tech mark. Even though Manley attempted harder Triples, she didn't do any in combination + she did ALL of her Triples in the first half of the program + the 3Loop wasn't clean. Ultimately I think Witt and Manley were very close in the LP but that Witt was probably slightly better. When you combine that with her being clearly better in the SP, she definitely deserved to place ahead.

pangtongfan said:

There is no way Gusmeroli could have medalled. She needed to beat Slutskaya by 4 places in the LP to pass her and Butyrskaya by 5 places. Keeping in mind Slutskaya and Butyrskaya won their qualifying pools where Gusmeroli was a disaesterous 7th, and the short program results were: 1)Butyrskaya, 2)Slutskaya, 3)Kwan, 4)Gusmeroli. Or are you now eliminating the qualifying round altogether just like figures?

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The qualification round is a joke and shouldn't count for a score. Especially because of the way skaters were put in separate groups, meaning you could rank 4th in one group but still have given a better performance than the person who ranked 1st in the other group. Dumb.

Gusmeroli most definitely deserved 2nd in the LP and, since she also did well in the SP, yes I do believe she should have won the Silver.

Also, a note about 6.0, it's silly how the placement of ordinals mattered instead of concrete evaluations of the performances. The ranking of two skaters flip-flopping depending on how other people skate is not an ideal judging system. It probably would have been better if the tech + presentation score from every judge was added up and the person with the highest total mark from the panel wins (you would factor the SP by .5 and that into the total...the LP is the tiebreaker and then the presentation score is the next tiebreaker).

ankka said:

I think Lepistö is one of the skaters you don't really get unless you've seen them skating live. Her speed is crazy, and the control over it. Also the edges are so evident as are her performing abilities. Somehow the TV seems to take a lot away from her.

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I've seen her live and it was nothing special. Her speed is good but not phenomenal. Good edges but not amazingly proficient at using them outside of stroking. Great posture but not a great use of her overall body. Not a ton of musicality.

In terms of elite skaters I think she is completely average in terms of presentation/artistry.

If figures didnt exist or were worth less skates like Ito and Biellmann might not have performed the way they did well back and with less pressure. Everyone assumed once figures were gone Ito would be unbeatable but instead she had trouble handling the pressure of being favored to win each time with figures gone and regularly lost to the steadier Yamaguchi, and even lost to all the Americans in 91 when they swept the podium only a mere year after being seen as "untouchable" in free skating.

As for Biellmann well again whos to knows. We saw how she handled her free skate the 1980 Worlds when for the first time she was close enough going into the long program to have a real shot. And at the 81 Worlds as the favorite she popped her combination in the short but it was a really weak year so she still won comfortably overall anyway.

Ito handled the pressure in both 1989 and 1990, when she was in contention. She won more Grand Prix events than anyone else during her competitive time period as well.

Saying she failed because of pressure in 1991 is nonsense. Laetitia Hubert SLAMMED into Ito right before the SP, likely cracking a rib or two and cutting her foot. She was clearly injured and yet she went out and delivered a great program...with the exception of running out of room on her combination jump and literally falling out of the rink. LOL. It's hardly a surprise that after incurring all these injuries she wouldn't be capable of delivering in the LP.

As for everyone else, *shrug*. There is always pressure.