American Girls--what's wrong?

janetfan · Nov 18, 2010

It seems like Mao and Miki will be saved - no matter how they skate - and that either Akiko or Kanako will be left out.

Whatever - I have disagreed for years with this "no more than three from one federation rule."

It is a stupid rule because it is unsporting and terribly unfair. Did I mention it was stupid :laugh:

I wish more USA Ladies could go - but to be honest they haven't earned the right. The Ladies from Japan are a different story this season and Worlds would be better if 4 of them could compete.

Who really thinks we need a competition where the majority of the skaters are 2nd rate Euro girls?
How does that make for a good event let alone an event called the "World Championship."

I humbly dediciate this post to Yukari.........

oleada · Nov 18, 2010

I just think that skating in the JGP and the SGP can be completely different animals. The top finishers in the JGP are the best, and often stand out in terms of skating skills, speed, etc to the rest of the competition, and their PCS show that. But then they get to the senior scene, and their speed, ice coverage, etc are no longer special. Then there's the additional pressure of doing well. Kanako fell once in competition last year - she fell three times at her NHK debut. Agnes was incredibly consistent last year, and had very solid senior performances during the summer, only to melt down at Skate Canada. Even Yu-na slipped to third overall in her GP debut after winning the short. Sure, some skaters have no nerves at all, and transition very smoothly, but others take their time.

And there's often also a little thing called puberty to contend with...

silverlake22 · Nov 19, 2010

What people need to realize about Christina is that she's not some little 14 year old baby. She's 16, she'll be 17 in a few months, she's less than a year younger than Mirai, who won the US championship at age 14 and was 4th at the Olympics and won the SP at Worlds at age 16. Yuna and Mao medaled at the Worlds when they were 16. So she competed on the JGP this season (which quite frankly was arguably a deeper field than the SGP this season), it doesn't really mean anything. She's hitting impressive jumps and putting up big scores and that's all that matters. Last season she sort of looked and skated juniorish, but this season she's grown up a lot and really worked on appearing and skating more like a senior lady. Cutesy little Mao won the GPF at 15, and cutesy little Kanako just won Skate America and she just turned 16, so I don't see why people think it would be totally shocking if Christina, who isn't even little and cutesy anymore, wins the US title and medals at Worlds as a 16/17 year old. I mean you guys seem to think she's like the same age as Liza and Adelina, but she's not, she's about 2-3 years older than both of them.

R.D. · Nov 19, 2010

silverlake22 said:
What people need to realize about Christina is that she's not some little 14 year old baby. She's 16, she'll be 17 in a few months, she's less than a year younger than Mirai, who won the US championship at age 14 and was 4th at the Olympics and won the SP at Worlds at age 16. Yuna and Mao medaled at the Worlds when they were 16. So she competed on the JGP this season (which quite frankly was arguably a deeper field than the SGP this season), it doesn't really mean anything. She's hitting impressive jumps and putting up big scores and that's all that matters. Last season she sort of looked and skated juniorish, but this season she's grown up a lot and really worked on appearing and skating more like a senior lady. Cutesy little Mao won the GPF at 15, and cutesy little Kanako just won Skate America and she just turned 16, so I don't see why people think it would be totally shocking if Christina, who isn't even little and cutesy anymore, wins the US title and medals at Worlds as a 16/17 year old. I mean you guys seem to think she's like the same age as Liza and Adelina, but she's not, she's about 2-3 years older than both of them.

It's a big deal moving up from Junior to Senior. Nagasu and Zhang also cleaned house in Juniors but look at them now. (esp. Zhang). I still maintain that Gao is unproven at the senior level and skating with the Big Ones is a Big Deal. In short: I'll believe it when I see it.

Sylvia · Nov 19, 2010

silverlake22 said:
What people need to realize about Christina is that she's not some little 14 year old baby. She's 16, she'll be 17 in a few months,

Gao will turn 17 next March. And it's not about her age.

silverlake22 · Nov 19, 2010

Sylvia said:
Gao will turn 17 next March. And it's not about her age.

March is 3-4 months away, that qualifies as a few

Jammers · Nov 20, 2010

janetfan said:
It seems like Mao and Miki will be saved - no matter how they skate - and that either Akiko or Kanako will be left out.

Whatever - I have disagreed for years with this "no more than three from one federation rule."

It is a stupid rule because it is unsporting and terribly unfair. Did I mention it was stupid

I wish more USA Ladies could go - but to be honest they haven't earned the right. The Ladies from Japan are a different story this season and Worlds would be better if 4 of them could compete.

Who really thinks we need a competition where the majority of the skaters are 2nd rate Euro girls?
How does that make for a good event let alone an event called the "World Championship."

I humbly dediciate this post to Yukari.........

In that case there would have been some years that the US would have had 5 girls at Worlds. Bet that wouldn't have gone over very well with the other countries though. :eek:

hwell:

wonderlen3000 · Nov 20, 2010

I think all top skaters suffers from critisicm and backlash all the times. The media will try to twist anything they can so they can sell the story. Michelle, Irina, Mao, all great skaters in their own aspect and accompalished so much yet someone will say some thiing bad b/c of this and that. All skaters are weakness in more or less degree. Come to think of it, OGM is only handed out one once every 4 years. No one can win all.

R.D. · Nov 20, 2010

wonderlen3000 said:
I think all top skaters suffers from critisicm and backlash all the times. The media will try to twist anything they can so they can sell the story.

That's something I can agree with (and relate to).

janetfan · Nov 20, 2010

Jammers said:
In that case there would have been some years that the US would have had 5 girls at Worlds. Bet that wouldn't have gone over very well with the other countries though. hwell:

My thoughts sometimes are to expand the field - let 10 more skaters in. Then use a ranking sytem and a qualifying round to trim the bottom 30 skaters down to 10 in a qualifying SP.

I can't help think of the Tennis Grand Slams where there can be 3 Russian girls or 10 or even more based on their world ranking.

Of course tennis is a real sport and unlike skating or beauty pageants where they try to get someone from as many countires as possible - the tennis open championships are about having the best players.

Someone will always feel left out - last year it seemed unfair that Yukari was left out. This year most likely Akiko or Kanako will be left out yet both had a good season and will be in the GPF. But one won't make it to worlds because her spot will be filled by the 49th ranked skater in the world (actually it could be the 79th ranked skater from some small Euro federation).

I guess most don't care about this - but if skating is so serious about being more like a real sport one might think they would like to have the 20 best skaters in the world at their championship. The way it is now that is not the case.

R.D. · Nov 20, 2010

^ Agreed, but how do you go about it? We already see sometimes startling inconsistencies in judging from event to event...so it may not be as simple as taking the top scores. Nothing is clear cut...

janetfan · Nov 20, 2010

R.D. said:
^ Agreed, but how do you go about it? We already see sometimes startling inconsistencies in judging from event to event...so it may not be as simple as taking the top scores. Nothing is clear cut...

If someone told Yukari last season she was given a wildcard to Worlds or the Olympics but had to skate in an early group - what do you think her reaction might have been?

Do you think Ashley, who made the GPF last season would have accepted a wildcard invitation as well?

Just saying a "World championship should theoretically try to have the world's best skaters competiting.

Layfan · Nov 21, 2010

janetfan said:
My thoughts sometimes are to expand the field - let 10 more skaters in. Then use a ranking sytem and a qualifying round to trim the bottom 30 skaters down to 10 in a qualifying SP.

I can't help think of the Tennis Grand Slams where there can be 3 Russian girls or 10 or even more based on their world ranking.

Of course tennis is a real sport and unlike skating or beauty pageants where they try to get someone from as many countires as possible - the tennis open championships are about having the best players.

Someone will always feel left out - last year it seemed unfair that Yukari was left out. This year most likely Akiko or Kanako will be left out yet both had a good season and will be in the GPF. But one won't make it to worlds because her spot will be filled by the 49th ranked skater in the world (actually it could be the 79th ranked skater from some small Euro federation).

I guess most don't care about this - but if skating is so serious about being more like a real sport one might think they would like to have the 20 best skaters in the world at their championship. The way it is now that is not the case.

That's a depressing thought. And so unfair to the world's best skaters.

With the Olympics, it might be a little different (although still unfair) because the spirit of that even is that is it global and meant to unite the whole world.

But with worlds, I like your tennis comparison and it is ridiculous to think that tennis fans would stand for watching mediocre players competiting just to have more countries represented. Very depressing to to think that Akiko or Kanako won't have a chance at world medal this year because Japan can't send more than three skaters. Or Ashley or Alissa or Mirai or Rachael or Gao, etc, ect

burntBREAD · Nov 21, 2010

janetfan said:
If someone told Yukari last season she was given a wildcard to Worlds or the Olympics but had to skate in an early group - what do you think her reaction might have been?

Do you think Ashley, who made the GPF last season would have accepted a wildcard invitation as well?

Just saying a "World championship should theoretically try to have the world's best skaters competiting.

The fact that Yukari never went to the Olympics makes me so, so sad.

Nadine · Nov 21, 2010

I'm one of the biggest Yukari Nakano fans, but my philosophy in life is "to get on with it". And she has, yeah! :clap:

This is why I don't like to quibble over past results, what's done is done, time to move on to the next competition. Clear your mind.

And on that score, as regards rules & countries being allowed to send 2 or 3 three skaters max, I say "rules are rules, deal with it!" Finito.

Layfan · Nov 21, 2010

What's wrong with questioning the rules? Even the ISU constantly questions, re-examines and tinkers with its rules.

Nadine · Nov 21, 2010

No problem for you or anyone else, I was just relaying *my* own personal philosophy, adding my opinion to this topic as well.

heyang · Nov 21, 2010

Originally Posted by oleada
I think that's part of the problem with the American girls right now - they start getting massively hyped when they are still tiny and when they don't fulfill the unrealistic expectations some set out (World domination! World champion! Winning everything under the sun!) people are disappointed.
I think you're on to something here.

I tend to agree. There's a lot more hype involved and pressure than there used to be. Technically, Michelle and Tara were the last ones to really follow through on the early hype.

Sasha had a lot of hype, but didn't win Nationals unless Michelle didn't compete, won 1 nationals out of 7 at senior level, no world championships, and was a surprise silver medalist at 2006 Olympics given the # of falls she had. While she has a successfull career, it's not one of winning multiple top tier competitions. She only got into the GP Finals twice.

Sarah didn't have much hype IMO.

Caroline and Mirai have received quite a bit of hype - both being interviewed on a major network while still juniors. As jumping beans with lots of girlish infectious giggling, they were very charming. Expectations were set for them to be the next it girls in American FS - body changes and injuries have hindered them. I don't think it's too late for either one of them, as long as they get the right coaches.

I think the USFSA has also encouraged mentoring to allow the younger skaters to get advice from their more successful counter parts. I think it helps to know that someone had the same thoughts and still went on to great success.

janetfan · Nov 21, 2010

burntBREAD said:
The fact that Yukari never went to the Olympics makes me so, so sad.

It makes me feel for her - she trained so hard for so many years.
Tugba, only half the skater Yukari is got to go twice......

Everyone loves Tugba - but as Layfan mentioned, tennis fans would not put up with such nonsense.
Maybe the Olympics can be thought of as different - but it is a foul and stinky rule for something called a World championship. I know every skater can't go - but why leave out top 10 skaters, or even top 20 skaters?

Is it a sport or a pageant?

Layfan · Nov 21, 2010

It's too bad also that the world never gets to know some pretty good skaters. Like Ryan Bradley or Jenny Kirk. Well, part of it is their own fault of course but still. Alissa WOULD be another example except that in her case it IS all her fault. Whenever she skates decently she goes to worlds. She seems to either make it to the podium or completely bury herself in the standings...

American Girls--what's wrong?

janetfan

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oleada

silverlake22

R.D.

Sylvia

silverlake22

Jammers

wonderlen3000

R.D.

janetfan

Match Penalty

R.D.

janetfan

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Layfan

burntBREAD

Nadine

Layfan

Nadine

heyang

janetfan

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Layfan

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