Oksana Baiul 90's Skater

[Lillehammer 94]

I've read a number of posts here at this particular forum, and I've come to the conclusion that Oksana Baiul has not been given her fair due for the excitement that she brought to Ladies Singles skating in the mid-90's. In 1993 and 1994 Oksana Baiul was the most exciting Ladies Singles skater in the World - 2nd to none.
And less you think that I'm simply an over emotional Baiul fan, let me also tell you that in the last two decades Katarina Witt would have to rate on my list as having the most gravitas of all the Ladies Singles skaters. Not to take anything away from Michelle Kwan - she too will become legendary. Yet, Michelle is of an era younger than Katarina's.
Just due to the fact that a person is not old enough to remember a skater when that skater competed, does not mean that you toss away that skater's accomplishments. I was not old enough to understand the accomplishments of Carol Heiss, howevwer I certainly give Heiss credit were credit is due for her skating success.

[BronzeisGolden]

Lillehammer 94,

While I definitely see what you are saying, you have to remember that everyone has their own personal tastes. And I don't think that disagreeing with a certain competition's result or choosing to dislike a certain style is really "not giving fair dues". Many of these people that didn't like Oksana and Katarina were fans then and didn't like them at that time either. I thought Oksana was wonderful, but I know several people on this board that don't share my opinion and I accept that whole heartedly. I can appreciate anyone's opinion as long as they can explain themselves in a coherent manner and refrain from simple bashing (Not everyone can do this, but I say just ignore them). I also think its a different situation when comparing Katarina and Oksana. Witt dominated the amateur scene for so long and enjoyed a distinguished professional career for some time after. Oksana was a star on the scene for one year...one very pivotal and controversial year for figure skating. The Tonya/Nancy scandal, the Lillehammer competition's disputed result, etc. all disrupted the balance of the sport and left many questions. And amid all of this uncertainty, Oksana chose to make her exit. Personally, I feel that what she had done already was more than enough to be remembered as legendary. But, not all agree. Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes, two other Olympic champions that have gone a similar route, have received the same such criticisms. I can see the rational thought behind each opinion, so, I don't think anyone is really getting an unfair deal. Besides, I think you'll find that there are plenty of people that love both Baiul and Witt here and would be more than happy to discuss them with you. Either way, welcome! I don't think I've seen you post before. I'd be quite happy discussing Baiul and Witt (amateur only really) with you anytime.

[skatepixie]

ITA Lilliehammer. I never saw the ladies part of the 94 olyms until more recently. I was more taken by pairs. I love Oksana though.

I also prefer to look at the bigger picture before screaming "_____ is the best there ever was!" In fact, only one of my absolute favorites is currently elegible. There are others (Jenny, Bebe, Yukina, exc) that I like, however.

[Ogre Mage]

I don't think anyone could deny Witt was the premiere female skater of her time. She ruled the 80s, the only woman besides Sonya Heine to win 2 Olympics Golds and she took home 4 WC to boot.
Her competitive record speaks for itself.

As for Oksana, I thought in her prime she was a great artistic skater and had a lot of charisma on the ice. That said, her reign at the top was brief and her Olympic win (unlike Witt's) was controversial. Her life post-Olympics was kind of sad. She was undoubtedly very talented, but I see her story as a cautionary one.

[Jaana]

Originally posted by Ogre Mage
I don't think anyone could deny Witt was the premiere female skater of her time. She ruled the 80s, the only woman besides Sonya Heine to win 2 Olympics Golds and she took home 4 WC to boot.
Her competitive record speaks for itself.

Actually Sonya Henie won the Olympic gold in 3 Olympics: 1928, 1932 and 1936.

About Oksana Baiul, she has started her skating career again, and I sure wish her all the success. Maybe now she has a better starting point in the pro career as she is older and apparently happy in her life. Besides I have understood that during her first pro season she had injury problems and they got worse?

Oksana had a very brief eligible career, she came and she went away... During that time though I loved to watch her skating! Now thinking back I can say, that I prefered to see her skating - even though it lasted only for a such brief time - than to see a long career of somebody´s skating that does not bring me the same kind of enjoyment. I will always remember Oksana as a huge highlight and how much I loved her skating.

Marjaana

[Germanice]

Originally posted by Jaana
Oksana had a very brief eligible career, she came and she went away... During that time though I loved to watch her skating! Now thinking back I can say, that I prefered to see her skating - even though it lasted only for a such brief time - than to see a long career of somebody´s skating that does not bring me the same kind of enjoyment. I will always remember Oksana as a huge highlight and how much I loved her skating.

Marjaana

My thoughts exactly!

It's a shame Oksana's eligible career didn't last longer, but she'll always remain in my heart as one of the best- and most charismatic Ladies skater ever. Actually she only needed one skate and I knew it right away! She's a one-in-a-million!

Anke

[Jaana]

Originally posted by Germanice
Actually she only needed one skate and I knew it right away! She's a one-in-a-million!
Anke

That is exactly the way it happened with me also! She - and Ilia, John Curry and Robin Cousins - they all became huge favourites at first glance of their skating. And also I became a fan of Sasha Cohen´s skating as I got a tape where she was second in short programme at US Nationals a few years ago.

Marjaana

[Ladskater]

Lillehammer 94:

Many great skaters have come and gone over the years and some receive more adulation than others. A lot of it is due to the great media coverage skaters now receive. Most skaters in the earlier years did not receive the attention from the public that skaters now receive.

The figure skating world was kind of an exclusive place - mostly skaters and their families were the biggest fans. Now there is a huge public interest thanks to more media coverage.

Karen Magnussen (World champion 1973 and Olympic silver medalist 1972) was one of those skaters who did not have a high profile. Of course, everyone in Canada appreciates her. She was one of the best skaters ever and is a role model for all the young skaters in Canada. She teaches at the North Shore winter club now and strives to inspire young skaters to achieve what she did. Karen was my inspiration when I skated.

As for Oksana - yes, she was one of those bright talents who burst on the scene - but so much was made of her personal problems it sort of tarnished her image with the public. People kept expecting more of her and she was not ready. Instant success sometimes does that to people. She still is one of the top skaters ever and I am sure has earned her place in the history books.

Katarina Witt was one of the strongest female competitors ever. She could really "phsyc out" her opponets. Fans either loved her or hated her for it. I think her record speaks for itself.

Just like movie stars there are skaters who do not receive the attention or adulation they may deserve. However, this does not take away from the skaters contributions to the sport or accomplishments. Some just quietly go about their business and know that they made a difference to figure skating. That's enough for them. Thank goodness we have the privilege of seeing them skate!

[Jaana]

Originally posted by Ladskater
Lillehammer 94:

Karen Magnussen (World champion 1973 and Olympic silver medalist 1972) was one of those skaters who did not have a high profile. Of course, everyone in Canada appreciates her. She was one of the best skaters ever and is a role model for all the young skaters in Canada. She teaches at the North Shore winter club now and strives to inspire young skaters to achieve what she did. Karen was my inspiration when I skated.

I loved Karen Magnussen´s skating!!! And Janet Lynn also, but I liked Karen´s a bit more. It was such an enjoyment to see their freeskates and heartbreaking to watch too often as somebody else who did not shine in freeskate at all getting the gold medal...

Marjaana

[Joesitz]

Originally posted by Ogre Mage
I don't think anyone could deny Witt was the premiere female skater of her time. She ruled the 80s, the only woman besides Sonya Heine to win 2 Olympics Golds and she took home 4 WC to boot.
Her competitive record speaks for itself.

ITA on Witt if we are talking about competitive skater, but only as a competitive skater. I think of beautiful skating as one thing and competitive skating as another. (I think Sarah Hughes was a fantastic competitive skater. However, I do not think of her as a beautiful skater. Just my opinion.)

Witt during her competitive years showed, imo, little in the way of beautiful skating. For me, she was just doing her tricks, huffing and puffing her crossovers; and batting her eyelashes at the judges to a Carmen beat. During her Pro period there were glimpses of a more sincere beautiful skater.

Oksana during her years was a wonder skater. So young, so much potential but for me very immature. Had she skated eligible for another Olympics, I think she would have been way ahead of the crowd. But that didn't happen.

One has to go back in time to realize that there have been few beautiful skaters at a young age. Among the few, for me would be Tenley Albright basically introduced balletic line to figure skating which Peggy Flemming brought up a notch and it kind of culminated with Janet Lynn. To bring up to modern times I would select Yuka Sato as a beautiful skater, and Irina Slutskaya as a great competitive skater.

All the above is just my opinion and one should see that selecting the 'best' is a very subjective exercise.

Joe

[dizzydi]

I guess the key here is "opinion". We all have them.

I loved Oksana's skating. She had a delicate, graceful touch on the ice. In my opinion she was such an artist. I believe her Olympic gold medal win was so controversial because of the marked difference in style between Nancy and Oksana. They are truly like comparing apples and oranges. No one was more disappointed than me when Oksana self-destructed.

Although I acknowledge the accomplishments of Katarina Witt, I have never enjoyed her skating. Perhaps others share my opinion and others may disagree. There really isn't anything wrong with that.

Many times in reading posts on this forum I totally disagree with the writer. However, I always try to take a step back and consider, foremost, that the writer is expressing their opinion. I sometimes find it annoying to hear what I feel is over criticism of a skater. Most people are so predictable that you can pretty much guess their reaction to any given topic by noting the author of the post before reading them.

The truth is that no one forces us to monitor this forum. Expressing our opinions is an opportunity here. Choosing to not visit the forum is also an option.

Personally, even though sometimes I find particular posts annoying to read, I also learn a lot about skating in general. I feel the forum is worthwhile and thank those who contribute and continue to educate me on a sport that I love.

Dizzy

[Yazmeen]

I will confess to being one of those who just never got the appeal of Oksana Baiul. While I agree that she was charismatic, her programs were too fussy and technically imperfect (many, many two footed triple jumps) for my taste. He pro programs, IMO, were often technical messes and exercises in histrionics and I used to feel sorry for the skater who had to skate after her when she would do her "lie on the ice and milk the applause" routine after she finished skating. I don't mean to offend anyone, but she was just a bit much for me. I often wonder if I might have warmed up to her skating more if she had stayed eligible longer. She and Tara epitomize what I didn't like about the "baby" Olympic champions--hit it big with a few performances, and then take the money and run. In both cases, their pro careers were marred by injuries and other problems, and I think that could affect how memorable they will be overall. The jury is still out on Sarah, but after her mediocre year last year and her now out of the skating scene with a return very questionable, she could become the answer to the "Who won Ladies Olympic Skating in 2002?" trivia question and not much more in the annals of Figure Skating.

[Mathman]

Lillehammer94, that was a great post. I love it when people use Latin words like "gavitas." Two thumbs up!

Mathman

[Rgirl]

Not to get off-topic, but since the term "best" came up and the word "penultimate" was used in another thread to mean best, I think it's time--in honor of Grgranny--for a definition lesson According to The American Heritage Dictionary, the definition of "Penultimate" (adjective) is "next to last." From the Latin [i]paenultimus[i]. So if you say, "Skater A's SP 'X' at World's was the penultimate performance in the history of the sport," what you're actually saying is, "Skater A's SP 'X' at World's was the next to last performance in the history of the sport." People started using "penultimate" to mean "the absolute ultimate" or "the ultimate ultimate" about 10-15 years ago and somehow this misuse got stuck in the vernacular. It you want to say that Skater A's SP of "X" at some competition was the absolute best, none will ever surpass it, or best in the history of the sport, use "ultimate great performance," "unsurpassable performance," or even "absolute best." But I hope people will leave the noun "penult," which means "next to the last item in a series," out of it, along with its adjective form, "penultimate." The proper use of penultimate would be if Skater A skated 9th out of 10 skaters and you said, "Skater A performed his LP in the penultimate position."

Just so I won't get in trouble for being too off-topic, does anybody remember who skated in the penultimate placement during the ladies' finals at the '94 Olympics? I know Oksana skated after Nancy and some people felt Nancy might have won the gold had she skated after Oksana. As to how I feel about Oksana as a '90s skater, I felt her exhibition and pro programs were, in general, more sophisticated and beautiful than her competitive programs. The ones that stand out for me as remarkable for their artistry, choreography, and "goosebump" factor, at least when I saw them live (except one) with COI are "The Swan," "Meditation by Thais," "Arabian," and "Ave Maria," which I believe was only performed at show honoring Sergei Grinkov's life. I thought that in skating "Ave Maria" Oksana was at her absolute best--her body looked stunning, she seemed deeply enraptured with the feeling of the program, and while she only did single Axels and doubled a couple of other jumps, her skating was so fluid and seamless. I also feel this was her last great performance before her skating really started visibly sliding downhill due to her alcoholism and possibly the effects of an unhealed knee injury. I found it very sad because after Oksana left Galina, who did do some gorgeous programs for her, several of which are mentioned above, I felt Oksana worked with choreographers who gave her even more sophisticated and difficult choreography to do, but unfortunately she wasn't in the physical or psychological state to do them justice. She did two pro programs choreographed by Sarah Karahawa to music by Sarah McGlaughlin that I thought were exceptionally strong. One was also unusual as compared to classical or lyrical skating programs in that it was quite powerful and aggressive. Does anyone know the names of these programs?

Also, did anyone see Oksana perform recently with Ice Theatre of New York on Novemeber 5? If so, would love a report. I saw Ice Theatre NY on November 9, but Oksana was one of the guest performers only on the 5th.
Rgirl

[Kwanisqueen81]

Can't resist to talk about one of my all-time favorite's the one, the only Ms. Katerina Witt!!!!!!!!!!


Witt so did it for me!! I love every minute of it!

From the beatuiful skater aspect: I actually think her carman was the best program to carman ever and her West side story LP at 87 worlds is the stuff skating legand is made of(ala Kwan's Salome or Chen's Rach)I always loved Kat's in-your-face-don't-stop-looking-at-me-glamorous-movie-star-style. Why? Becaue Katerina was not a pretender to the thron, her style while attention grabing felt so natural it was not forced at all, one gets the feeling she really is a actress on skates. Just wonderful.

From the competitive skater aspect: 2Oly gold, 6 Europeans crowns, 4 worlds crowns....this chick just can't be denied. Case closed

IHMO what made Katerina so wonderful was that she was the first skater *I've* ever seen that incorporated modern dance in to her skating effortlessly. I was so engaging and charismatic that it was often mistaken for sexy but I think she wasn't trying to be "sexy" rather "sensously Charismatic", ok maybe that is spliting hairs but it makes perfect sense to me. Wheather or not she ever wins oly gold I do think that Michelle Kwan will be remembered in much the same esteem that the "Katerina years" are remembered.