11-14-2010, 10:37 PM
I agree. The skaters who can do appealing spirals (real spirals imo) incorporated them in the programs and the ones who don't usually leave them out so therefore there's less ugly spirals to view. I do miss seeing the good spirals more often but Michelle and Sasha have moved on so...
Originally Posted by Mathman
I've actually seen the spectacular spirals with the men (Sawyer) and a few of the pairs.
11-14-2010, 10:44 PM
To me, it seems like she's trying to disguise it rather than really fix the issue. It was better here but at NHK, it was the same as always and it showed in the GOE marks. If she were really tackling the issue, the jump would be more unstable (more pops/falls).
Originally Posted by SkateSkates
11-14-2010, 10:51 PM
Haven't read any of this thread, just arrived back after a 3 hour ride, and here are my thoughts from today's Ladies FS:
Jenna McCorkell -- she has a monster 3L jump, I honestly thought she was going to jump over the fence & land on us! (8^O Seriously, she took it to the edge, right in front of me, awesome to see in person. Btw, I think she was the one that had the long lovely glide spiral into it. On the downside, it was heartbreaking to see her get absolutely NO presents/gifts from anyone. She's the only lady that didn't receive any. I felt bad, but I only had gifts for my 3 favs (aka Rachael, Caroline, Carolina). Gosh I was I had something to give her. :( On the upside, it was great to see her & her husband Kevin Van Der Perren (along with the Helgesson sister; the one that skated first) all sitting together watching the rest of the event. I kept telling my niece "go up there & get their autographs" because she kept bugging me about them, but alas she was too shy to go up there & talk to them.
Viktoria Helgesson -- Wow, she is impressive in person, not just her beauty (she's a drop dead pure bred Nordic beauty, the real thing), but also her skating! She's a classic skater with beautiful edges & technique. It was a joy to watch her skate! (:^)
Alexe Gilles -- she has such gorgeous jumps, it's a shame she's turning out to be a headcase. :( But she has a lightness of being, she makes you smile, she just keeps going like the energizer bunny. Btw, I swear she looks exactly like Carole Lombard (the love of Clark Gable's life), reincarnation anyone? On a side note, as I was leaving my niece spotted Alexe Gilles way up above us, and wanted to get her autograph. So as I was getting pen & paper ready for my niece, whom was once again too shy to approach her, Alexe disappeared. :(
Mae Berenice Meite -- she's like a magestic amazon out there! Shades of the Williams sisters & Surya Bonaly put together. Her jumps are huge! (8^O
Elene G -- she looked exactly like a cupcake out there. She really has to tone down the fake blonde hair (it's ridiculous when someone isn't a natural blonde & dyes their hair blonde; the only real blondes are the Nordic beauties ala the Helgesson sisters & Alexe Gilles). That said, she really does skate faster than everyone out there, including Carolina Kostner! And she has such a charming personality with a lot of spunk, it makes you smile. Her jumps are textbook perfect, especially the monster 3L, her only problem is doing them on a consistent basis. And on a shallow note, she's so very tiny in person, but the t.v. set makes her appear larger than what she is, having curves is cruel when it comes to television.
Joshi Helgesson -- all I recall about her is that she looks you dead in the eye, she's one of those skaters that isn't afraid to look at the audience, lol. :D
Caroline Zhang -- what a joy it was to see her skate in person for the very first time! (:^) She still retains her elegance & charm on the ice. And she really isn't that slow on the ice, only on the 2A.
Carolina Kostner -- ah, she had it in the bag, but crumbled at the end. :( She really stands alone amongst the rest in terms of posture, straight long legs, height, beauty, dazzling 100-watt smile, elegance, et al. However, she isn't that fast imho, about average like the rest, definitely not a speed demon like Elene G.
Kanako Murakami -- she is my honest humble opinion wayyyyyyyyy overrated. Her legs are raggedy and when she jumps she lands with her chest almost touching the ice, not straight up & down the way one should, just hugely disappointing to see her skate in person. Her win reminds me of those that used to say of the Russians "skating while Russian", however nowadays it's "skating while Japanese".
Rachael Flatt -- WOW, she overexceeded whatever expectations I might have had beforehand! Seriously, in person she's simply A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!!! She skates with lots of pizzazz, charm, style, and effervescence. And she skates as fast as the rest, la verdad, it was more than a joy to watch her skate, it was an honor. To top it all off, she skated *clean*, was simply perfect. Much much deserved standing ovation, way overdue, Rachael Flatt is simply on another plane than the rest of the girls. In person her aura is crystalline, she makes you smile, and cheer! My favorite by far of this entire Skate America. Now after seeing her skate in person, I say with all sincereity she was robbed of two gold medals in this season's GPs, and also of a higher placing at both the Olympics & Worlds. And I won't change my mind on that.
11-14-2010, 10:55 PM
Kanako reminds me a lot of Mirai (with not as good spins). She's fast, a good jumper, very expressive, and fun to watch but her programs are almost always cutesy, and when they aren't, they seem a little boring. Cutesy works for her now because she's so tiny and energetic and cute, but if she has a Meissner or Zhang esque physical transformation in the near future she may find herself in a bit of a rut artistically, and will have no choice but to develop a new style. I mean, besides Leonova, do any skaters continue to the perky cutesy programs past the age of like 16?
11-14-2010, 10:57 PM
I'm going to have to be blunt here. Caroline is sluggish and does not move effortlessly across the ice for just one reason .... she put on weight. That's bad and that's good. The bad is that a competitive athlete must watch her weight. In very few sports is this not true. I have no idea how her weight got away from her like that.
Originally Posted by krenseby
So where is the good? The good is that this is a problem that can be fixed. Perhaps not easily, but it can be fixed. If Caroline can slim down and tone up, that fixes several of her problems. She will get better rotation on her jumps, more speed, faster spins, faster spirals, more endurance, and the appearance of effortless ease the judges look for. With all the work Caroline has done, I don’t see a single problem a few less pounds can’t fix.
11-14-2010, 11:01 PM
Mama Zhang is rather stocky, so Caroline may not be able to do much about her current body, sort of like how Rachael can't do much about her body. Caroline could maybe lose a few pounds but it won't change her bone structure, the biggest thing I've noticed is that she's filled out mainly through the but and thighs, making her more bottom heavy which makes the jumps harder. Losing weight won't change the way she is built.
Originally Posted by PolymerBob
11-14-2010, 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by PolymerBob
The thing is weight is both a result of genetics and behavior. While Caroline may be genetically programmed to look like her mother, behaviorally she may not be at all like her mother in terms of her workout level and diet.
Originally Posted by silverlake22
Which means that we can't know for sure whether she can or can't slim down. (Apology if anyone finds this discussion offensive. It is a difficult issue that athletes have to deal with the pressure of maintaining a body that's much leaner and fitter than that of non-athletes. So that's why this discussion seems like dangerous territory.)
Last edited by krenseby; 11-15-2010 at 12:21 AM.
11-15-2010, 12:00 AM
Caroline Zhang reminds me of Bebe Liang. They both have the same body type.
11-15-2010, 12:01 AM
Nice to see that someone who was actually at the event also feels that Flatt was the best skater. Thanks Cop.
Originally Posted by Nadine
Last edited by R.D.; 11-15-2010 at 12:19 AM.
Reason: correct grammar
11-15-2010, 12:13 AM
I am still waiting for Elene to have the skate of her life ;-( But it will come one of these days!
Originally Posted by Nadine
11-15-2010, 12:14 AM
I agree, a taller version of Bebe Liang. Also AFAIK Bebe has always been in great shape, and was capable of being a great jumper with her body type, her big issue was consistency. So maybe Caroline just needs to get used to the new technique and once she does her new body might allow her to be a more powerful skater.
Originally Posted by ks777
That being said, Kimmie post 2006 was very strong and muscular but it seemed to hurt her jumps a lot. So Caroline could go either way.
11-15-2010, 12:51 AM
Nice to see that someone who was actually there can validate my feelings about Kanako's skating. I absolutely detested her choreography in the short - it was way OTT perky, and the non-stop smiling she did throughout the program came across as terribly fake to me. She's obviously been taught by Midori's former coach to 'turn it on', so to speak, but what came across as genuine from Midori has the opposite effect with Kanako, IMO. At least she wasn't so grating in the LP, but overall I'm not terribly impressed by her skating - she has a nice 3T-3T, but her other jumps range from competent to mediocre (that hammer kick she does on the flip/lutz is not pretty), her spins are so-so, and her presentation seems forced and quite unpolished.
Originally Posted by Nadine
If she makes the World team and Mao doesn't - ethereal, elegant, refined Mao - I will scream. It's bad enough that Miki is almost assured a spot, but at least with Miki you get the wonderful jumps and Morozovified choreography that is so bad it's entertaining to watch. And I really hope that Akiko doesn't somehow get lost in the shuffle - now, there's a skater who conveys genuine excitemment and delight in her programs without being phony.
11-15-2010, 01:00 AM
Nadine, thanks for the (literally!) rinkside report. It's interesting to hear what these ladies are like close up. I too am glad you're so enthusiastic about Rachael. There's something appealing about her. Moreover, I (being a nervous Nellie myself) am always impressed by people who seem to remain calm under pressure. Besides, I like "Slaughter on Tenth Avenue"--though I prefer a more energetic orchestration of it.
I missed part of the broadcast, so I'll have to hunt stuff up on YouTube. I saw the second Swedish skater, Joshi, but missed her sister. I also missed Zhang, though I gather she did not outdo herself. Alas...but I continue to hope for her improvement.
11-15-2010, 01:18 AM
Skating is art, if you let it be.
I'm pretty sure 99% of Flatt's 3Lz-3Lo attempts have been underrotated or otherwise flawed in practice. Perhaps causing her "injury". She can't do that combo.
Originally Posted by Nigel
11-15-2010, 01:28 AM
It's insane Flatt didn't win for that effort.
Flatt's 3Lz+2T got 4.7
Kanano's solo 3(f)Lz got 5.3
When seeing it live, Flatt's 3Lz looked flawless, and it was a combo. Kanako's flutz is so bad, it should be -3 across the board. She didn't do anything extra to warrant only -1 and a 0 GOE. This is a joke.
What happened to -2 and -3 for flutzing?
Also, transition, P/E, choreography, and interpretation should be higher than Kanako.
The only good sign is: 3 flips in both S and LP were all clean. No downgrades. A freak downgrade on the lutz, but I'm sure she'll be working on that one.