11-15-2010, 07:16 PM
Funny, wasn't Mirai the one who lost to Rachel due to UR's just last year? I thought Rachel was the one who was known to rotate her jumps until that Olympics where she was one of the few among the top who got called. I don't think her biggest problem is UR's because it's not like Kanako is immune to them either. She lost in the intangible factors, which has been an issue throughout her career.
Originally Posted by Krislite
11-15-2010, 09:18 PM
can't come down to Earth
Kanako, whether you like her or not...is very good. I think it would be hard to deny the talent that this Junior World Champion has. I do wish Rachael had won the Gold because she rightfully won the LP, but her mistakes in her SP were crucial and uncharacteristic so I cannot go into "wuzrobbed" mode at all. Anyway, Rachael should feel victorious; I really did enjoy her LP and thought she was classy and had pizzazz, something unexpected Rachael is definitely on the upstroke, so I hope she continues making progress.
Andalusia, I am sensing some negativity in your posts, possibly stemming from anticipating the need to defend your opinions...and I just want to reassure you that you aren't alone.
Originally Posted by Andalusia
Personally, I like spunky, I definitely appreciate spunk! I thought Kanako's SP at NHK was cute and a breath of fresh air...but I found that this time around at Skate America, it was too much and I felt a bit turned off. I can't pinpoint it exactly but it feels analogous to having had too much sugar and getting sick afterwards. I would be the biggest hypocrite if I criticized Kanako for "turning on her show face" since YuNa in her Senior debut was described a bit like that: shy and quiet off the ice, coming alive on the ice...something tells me that Kanako is a naturally cheerful, energetic girl but I must admit that the way she goes into overdrive during her SP doesn't engage and invite the audience in as much as it appears to be a kind of unidirectional "hey look at me, I'm so cute!"
On the other hand, I enjoyed Kanako's LP and thought it was quite nice. She's a natural performer, and I'm impressed by her seemingly boundless energy. There were no discernible signs of fatigue or slowing down in her LP.
MrScroogeMcDuck mentions control...I think Kanako had the right mix of control and spontaneity. Too much methodical deliberation can kill a performance, too. When I think of "sloppy", I think of Sarah Hughes (sorry Sarah Hughes fans :x )--lovely spins, but sloppy jumps. :x Kanako seemed all right to me.
Anyway, I don't think we have to fear for Mao yet. I totally agree that Mao is something special: a true technical prodigy with a deeper expressivity and with slightly more substance; ethereal and sublime at her best. However, we should give Kanako some slack for two reasons: She concedes this. ("Mao skates in heaven, while I skate on Earth.") Secondly, Kanako is 4 years younger! That's a looong time, and I have an inkling that Kanako will improve over the years. She's definitely worth keeping an eye on. I'm not too attached to Miki or Akiko myself, so whatever goes...
11-15-2010, 09:26 PM
Six Point Zero
I'm not saying UR's are Rachael's biggest problem. I meant that the new rules, which I suspect the US and other federations lobbied for to benefit their skaters, might actually be working against her and many other skaters who were prone to UR's before the new rules. Rachael's having problem enough as it is getting the judges to like her, but now she has to contend with even stricter UR rules and so she's being held down on both scores: her technical scores and her program components.
Originally Posted by miki88
11-15-2010, 10:48 PM
Rachael attempted a 3Lz+2T. She did not get credit for this - it was under-rotated and called as such. See the protocol here. So technically, under IJS, she did not do a 3Lz+2T. As you can see, all the judges gave her -GOE for this element. As the judges aren't shown the downgrades/UR calls this year (and someone can correct me on this, as I am not 100% sure), one can assume they saw something wrong with the jump. That's the reason Kanako got more for a solo 3Lz even with an edge call - she got full credit for that jump.
Originally Posted by FlattFan
As for the video, you might want to check your DVR again. I downloaded the video from FSVids to double-check, but after the whole Tom Z. doing pushups things. Scott makes a comment about the scores taking a long time usually means that they are looking at rotation issues and that Rachael has gotten UR calls before, then they start showing a replay of the 3Lz+2T at approx . 6:31 in the video uploaded at FSVids and they have the following exchange.
Terry: We take another look, how about rotations?
Tracey: Underrotations not as costly this year. People felt they were being too picky watch on downgrades and underrotations, so you don't lose it all....
Then they start replaying part of her footwork.
So don't accuse me of lying when I'm right.
Last edited by oleada; 11-15-2010 at 10:57 PM.
11-15-2010, 11:39 PM
I'm not going to get into any of this "wuzrobbed" business this time, but I certainly enjoyed Kanako's performance more, annoying or whatnot. If you see her in interviews and the way she acts when she's not skating you can see it is clearly not "put on", she is really quite adorable. It takes a really precocious person to declare about Mao, "She skates in heaven while I skate on Earth"
Originally Posted by oleada
How do you find this season's programs on FSVids? I can only see the 2009-2010 season, unless the 2010-2011 season forum just got added in
11-16-2010, 12:13 AM
Eh, I don't care who enjoys Kanako or Rachael more, I'm just annoyed at being accused as a liar when I'm most definitely not. But I'm with you - I personally prefer Kanako. I think you are right when it says that she comes across as genuine. Nothing about her seems put on.
Originally Posted by burntBREAD
As for FSVids - the current section is always a closed one. You usually have to repost videos (10, I think) to gain access to it. The 2010/2011 forum has been there since the JGP, I don't know if people who don't have access can't see it.
11-16-2010, 12:48 AM
she takes the audience on her journey of emotions
Well. I didn't get to watch and I'm only now catching up ... so I have no educated opinion of the Rachael v. Kanako debate that appears to have emerged.
(Ah - a few days away from GS and I land right in the middle of a wuzrobbed fight. Figure skating. )
I watched Rachael's LP and Kanako's LP and Carolina's SP on Youtube, since the reports said they were the highlight.
Rachael's skating itself seems pretty much the same as last year but I like her LP so much better. Well, I didn't like her LP last year at all. But her LP choreo this is enjoyable and she seems to enjoy it. A couple of her her not-so-great spins still disrupt the program, I suppose, but this year the footwork seems to suit her better and even the spirals are worked in in such a way that they look better. I liked the landing on her flip.
I personally think Rachael has peaked. But she really pushes herself to her limits (injury limitations not withstanding) and gives it all she's got. That is often enough to medal or win and why she is always a threat.
Also, Rachael looked confident and in control. I have to say that does give her ice presence of sorts.
Oh. Costume: the cut definitely and improvement. The color, not such much. Fire-engine red, no. Yellow or black, yes.
I've been enjoying watching Kanako emerge this year. I personally do like her style and I don't see that she is over the top like some people say. The technique on some of her jumps seem awkward, though. Whoever said her hammer kick is obvious is right. I think she is like Akiko - she doesn't have the most wow jumps or wow flexibility but she has such a fun performance style that she totally sells herself and I agree with Janetfan that her joy comes across. I think she is better than Akiko though, at least potentially.
Sorry to hear Caroline Zhang struggled so much again. Sigh. I know she's in the middle of reworking everything but it's hard to keep the faith that it's ever going to happen for that girl. We'll see.
11-16-2010, 07:43 AM
Just watched Rachael, Kanako and Kostner. I enjoyed Rachael's performance so much with with great energy and her 'all-American' sassy touches. Lovely. I expected higher PE, CH and IN than Kanako, and still don't get the 3T< (just like her 3T< in some fluff competition, JO or WT in Japan a couple of seasons ago, with the technical caller being Shin Amano). I do agree though Rachael doesn't have many GOE+ worthy elements, which I guess hurts her a lot.
*Btw I don't buy the tecnical controller bias conspiracy at all. Shin Amano loves downgrading everyone's jumps lol. Cas in point: Mao's 3axel < at Words.
Congrats to Kanako's first win! I think some people are being harsh on her- Yes her choreography is a bit over the top and so is her rather in-your-face cuteness, but who cares this is her senior debut and her team obviously wanted to leave a big impact and they did it! I see her as a (much) downgraded version of Yuna. Both have amazing speed with lots of cross-overs except Yuna has better control, both have amazing 3-3t with great height and distance except Yuna's is more difficult, both have crowd-friendly 'selling' moves/ expressions, neither of them has fantastic posture/line, neither of them has pointed toes, etc. Judging from the generous scores, maybe Kanako's style meets the judging trend.
I personally prefer Haruka Imai as 'the Japanese girl on the rise' but the more talent the better!
Re: Kostener. Her jumps didn't belong to the senior level but I think this program is her best and so is her delivery (obviously minust the jumps).
11-16-2010, 10:47 AM
She'll be fine.
Originally Posted by Layfan
I know her fans are worried, but I'm convinced she'll be fine.
11-16-2010, 12:27 PM
I agree. If things don't get better for her she can always go to college like a normal kid her age. Her attitude seems improved and it would appear she's keeping a more open mind, so this probably means she's thought out her future and what she plans to do depending on how her skating goes.
Originally Posted by R.D.
11-16-2010, 01:34 PM
Rooting for the divas with Kwanford
Layfan, watch Kanako's SP. That's what most of the debate is about. Personally I loved it.
11-16-2010, 04:57 PM
I really hope that Caroline will be fine, but from the looks of it I have my doubts. She does in fact skate slow and even though her mule kick has gone, her jumps are still not good. Even her once trade mark spins are slower and at best average.
Kanako will have to fix her horrible flutz and she too has a mule kick. I think she had alot of personality, but I am not a fan of speed for the sake of speed. She skates like a junior and in my opinion she should have been second in this competition. Her PCS should not be higher than mid 6's at best. She just is not quite there yet.
I was pleasantly surprised by Rachael. She deserved the standing O. She had personality, overall pretty good jumps, and although some of her spins are not pleasing to the eye, she has a lovely layback. Overall her speed was at least average, that is not what I expected with what I have read on the boards. I hope her injury is not severe and that she will be able to skate in the GPF. Oh, and really her red costume looked beautiful on her. She had the best costumes of the ladies.
Last edited by cjsk8fan; 11-16-2010 at 05:00 PM.
11-16-2010, 05:48 PM
Not only is Shin Amano tough on the calls, but so is Sissy Krick. I think there were 22 < calls and 4 e calls on jumps in the ladies LP. Guess you have to decide it that is a typical # of "<" or not for an event.
Originally Posted by hikki
11-16-2010, 11:55 PM
I have loved Kanako's moments with coach before she comes out to skate since NHK SP.
Originally Posted by janetfan
11-18-2010, 04:13 AM
she takes the audience on her journey of emotions
I enjoyed it too. I liked it when I first watched it at NHK. The girl can dance. That is what makes her such a fun performer - it's not just her enthusiasm. I think she's got the moves and the potential to skate to many types of music.
Originally Posted by Spun Silver