Speed

blue dog · Nov 16, 2010

Throughout the Grand Prix this year (and, mostly, the ladies competition in Skate America), several posters have commented that so-and-so is really fast, or so-and-so is so slow, they nearly come to a stop. The impression I get, however, is that these skaters, whether they are considered fast skaters or slow skaters skate their whole program with this speed. When I first became a fan, skaters changed tempo with their music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJNs1esR0_Y

Nowadays, when a skater skates to even the same music, the slow section is completely ignored:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dszUURzhWh4

Has speed become so important, that skaters, even the most "artistic" ones, are ignoring the tempo?

ever · Nov 16, 2010

The problem is you can't see the real speed(or tempo) on TV.
The same performance, but different angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpobi8brofA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5sykV_U8Lo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU3EDmbs8KA[fancam]

silver.blades · Nov 16, 2010

Personally, I think that the speed across the ice should always be fast regardless of the music. Skating is about flow and speed. The relation to the music should come with the speed of the steps and the choreography.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 17, 2010

Speed is a relative of Entertainment.

mskater93 · Nov 17, 2010

silver.blades said:
Personally, I think that the speed across the ice should always be fast regardless of the music. Skating is about flow and speed. The relation to the music should come with the speed of the steps and the choreography.

Speed =/= tempo. You can gain a lot of speed without stroking quickly

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 18, 2010

High Speed (whatever that is) makes Jumps easier to do. Surya Bonaly opened up with a double axel without gathering any speed. I thought this remarkable because the law of physics insists on speed for jumps. Did she get any extra credit for that? I think not. fans probably thought she was slow.

I'm confused with fan's making an issue out of speed. It does indeed work with Flow and so does less speed work with Flow. How fast do you want a skater to move when using the Thais Intermezzo? Like a bullet? It doesn't mean slow, it means with the tempo. Otherwise get rid of the music in figure skating.

It might make sense for compeititive skaters to also take some music lessons as well as the old standbye ballet.

ever · Nov 18, 2010

Joesitz said:
High Speed (whatever that is) makes Jumps easier to do. Surya Bonaly opened up with a double axel without gathering any speed. I thought this remarkable because the law of physics insists on speed for jumps. Did she get any extra credit for that? I think not. fans probably thought she was slow.

I'm confused with fan's making an issue out of speed. It does indeed work with Flow and so does less speed work with Flow. How fast do you want a skater to move when using the Thais Intermezzo? Like a bullet? It doesn't mean slow, it means with the tempo. Otherwise get rid of the music in figure skating.

It might make sense for compeititive skaters to also take some music lessons as well as the old standbye ballet.

High speed is difficult to control, that is why many skaters go slow. :laugh:

silver.blades · Nov 18, 2010

mskater93 said:
Speed =/= tempo. You can gain a lot of speed without stroking quickly

I'm aware that speed and tempo are different. The speed in a program should remain more or less constant, while the tempo of the skating should match the music.

mskater93 · Nov 18, 2010

This wasn't directed at you - this was directed at whoever suggested that a skater should skate slowly in the slow section of the program. The tempo of the skating should match the music, but the skater should still be covering the ice well.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 18, 2010

ever said:
High speed is difficult to control, that is why many skaters go slow.

I don't understand the humor in your post, but speed in any gauge is required for FLOW and it is timed to the TEMPO of the music. Do you want the Adagio in Swan Lake to be speedier?

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 18, 2010

mskater93 said:
This wasn't directed at you - this was directed at whoever suggested that a skater should skate slowly in the slow section of the program. The tempo of the skating should match the music, but the skater should still be covering the ice well.

Which poster suggested that a skater should skate slowly in the slow section of the program? I didn't read any of that. Have you ever mentioned how fast you would want a skater to skate? Is it as fast as a speed skater or moderate like a figure skater? Should not the figure skater vary his speed while skating his program? It's in the rules. Now how does he do it? by skating fast throughout his program ignoring all the changes in Tempo? Is that correct? If so, there is no need for Music in Figure Skating.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 18, 2010

silver.blades said:
I'm aware that speed and tempo are different. The speed in a program should remain more or less constant, while the tempo of the skating should match the music.

Why then does the CoP ask for variance of speed in a program?

silver.blades · Nov 18, 2010

I don't object to the use of stops and skids within a program, but the skater should be able to get back up to speed quickley and maintain that speed throughout the majority of the program. I do know quite a few coaches who do beleive that speed should vary in accordance with the music, but I was always taught that you should be at full speed for the entire program.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 18, 2010

OK. If you don't believe in the Variance of Speed in a Program. I'm just questioning how one shows variance in a program without a change in tempo of the music. (I hope skids and stops were not pointed towards me.)

Maintaining (your word) the same speed, to me at least, is not showing variance in speed. Ok if you don't want to vary speed. There was one of those Swedish gals at SA who used a piece of music that had no change in Tempo, and she did skate without any variance in speed. Unfortunately, her tech was off. I found her boring more for the lack of musicality than for tech errors.

I'm just one of those guys who likes variety in figure skating.

silver.blades · Nov 19, 2010

I don't have any problem with changing the tempo of the music and the steps to match the music, but the speed across the ice should always be fast, regardless.

ever · Nov 20, 2010

Joesitz said:
I don't understand the humor in your post, but speed in any gauge is required for FLOW and it is timed to the TEMPO of the music. Do you want the Adagio in Swan Lake to be speedier?

Didn't you post "High Speed (whatever that is) makes Jumps easier to do."?:think:

It was my post "High speed is difficult to control, that is why many skaters go slow. :laugh:

"

Can you understand now? :biggrin:

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 20, 2010

I think it was your emoticon that blew me away. It is the one emoticon that is not clear. Is one laughing at the situation? laughing at the remarks of another poster? ridiculing another poster for his opinion? (You could be reported for that! - do you understand?) :eek:

Ridiculing is NOT laughable. It is serious business.

By the way High Speed appeared to me by so many posters as the only speed one should use in competition regardless of the Tempo of the music, - some even thought that Tempo should be ignored. Should the CoP rule on using the variance on Speed be changed? Do you understand this? :biggrin:

ever · Nov 20, 2010

Joesitz said:
I think it was your emoticon that blew me away. It is the one emoticon that is not clear. Is one laughing at the situation? laughing at the remarks of another poster? ridiculing another poster for his opinion? (You could be reported for that! - do you understand?)

Ridiculing is NOT laughable. It is serious business.

By the way High Speed appeared to me by so many posters as the only speed one should use in competition regardless of the Tempo of the music, - some even thought that Tempo should be ignored. Should the CoP rule on using the variance on Speed be changed? Do you understand this?

I used emoticon because i don't want to use bad words. :biggrin:

If you were FSfans since Jul 2003. how can you don't know the importance of High speed? And no one can skate high speed through all performance. :biggrin:

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 20, 2010

Without getting into any personal controversy, what exactly do you think of the CoP Rule to show variance in speed. In other words, the speed should be changeable. Should it not?

ever · Nov 20, 2010

Joesitz said:
Without getting into any personal controversy, what exactly do you think of the CoP Rule to show variance in speed. In other words, the speed should be changeable. Should it not?

I already know what you insisted. but I think you better study what Cop is and Speed is just one of many skating skills

Is there any skater who can skate same speed through performance? the speed already is changeable.

Speed

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