Reliable Rachael and Reputation

[janetfan]

She is reliable but why isn't her reputation better with the Intl judges?

Many thought Rachael won SA last week and even comments I have read from posters who say they are not a big fan of her skating thought she won.

How did a new senior skater in only her second event - and making a few mistakes - beat Rachael in the pcs?

Is this a matter of "reputation scoring" and do some get the feeling that Rachael's pcs were fixed in the judges minds before she even skated?

I often read the beauty of the CoP is that skaters and coaches can study their scores and determine what they need to work on to improve their skating and scores.

Based on last years results at the GPs, Olympics and Worlds does it appear that Tom Z came up with any type of plan to boost Rachael's scores in the all important pcs?

My thoughts are that Racahel is one of the few Ladies in the world who can show a seven triple LP and stay on her feet. If that was so easy more would be doing it - but most don't even try let alone succeed.

I wonder about Team Flatt upping her TECH difficulty for this season when it only seemed she needed to fix up her flip - which she formerly used in one of the more consistent 3x3's.

Is there anything that can be done for Rachael to get better scores in the pcs? If not I think her scoring potential will remain good but a step away from the "elites."

I wish this determined young lady a speedy recovery and hope she is in good shape for the GPF and Natls. I may not be her biggest fan - but I admire her poise and competitive abilty when it comes time to skate.

[dorispulaski]

Thanks janetfan for starting this thread. I do think that reputation judging always plays a part in PCS. A skater is often judged by their previous outing. Rachael will be, I think, at the GPF. It is her first outing there. It is often the case that all the skaters who qualify for the GPF mystically get a bump in their PCS scores over those who don't, especially those who skate well there. I'm hoping to see that for Rachael, particularly if the crowd in Beijing (well if there are more 100 of them...) give her a standing ovation.

As to what she can do herself, skaters who are dinged for PCS really have nowhere to go other than to up their tech marks. This shouldn't be, but it is true. The second thing you can do is learn to skate faster and more powerfully, which may require a different training regimen. Ryan Bradley went to Detroit and did some dance classes to get a bit of improvement. I highly recommend this course, as IMO, all of the top male dancers have better skating skills than Patrick Chan.

I suspect Rachael is lots better than she is given credit for by people who haven't seen her live. When you see a good sized crowd giving the girl a standing O you know there is some performance quality there. Particularly when they get back they say, well, Rachael is not my favorite, but she was the star of Skate America. When a kid is better live than on TV, it's using due to stuff in the transitions, performance and skating skills area.

[miki88]

I've posted about this in another thread but I'll just say it again. What she lacks are those intangible factors that makes a skater stand apart from the pack. The problem with Rachel is that she's so average in every aspect of her skating (with the exception of consistency) that when a skater like Kostner or Murakami comes along, she'll always lose in the second mark. She needs a makeover and she needs to develop more of personality on the ice so the judges can stop seeing her as the plain jane.

[krenseby]

I've posted about this in another thread but I'll just say it again. What she lacks are those intangible factors that makes a skater stand apart from the pack. The problem with Rachel is that she's so average in every aspect of her skating (with the exception of consistency) that when a skater like Kostner or Murakami comes along, she'll always lose in the second mark. She needs a makeover and she needs to develop more of personality on the ice so the judges can stop seeing her as the plain jane.

I have to say though, the fact that she manages to put it all together, does make a difference to me. When she rotates and lands one beautiful jump after another, the jumps combined with her other elements create a sensation of wholeness and flow precisely because everything has been done properly and not messed up. So that's a reason to appreciate her skating, I guess.

[dorispulaski]

And I liked this LP at Skate America how much she seemed to be enjoying her routine! It so much easier to enjoy something when the performer seems to be enjoying it.

It just makes you Smile.

[Poodlepal]

Possible Reasons:
1. Rachael doesn't have the perfect body type. She's neither tiny or long and skinny like Carolina. There are some spins, etc. That she can't do. She is not overweight at all--but she isn't balletic.

2. Rachael is trying to out ballerina the ballerina's at their own game and can't do it. I would do at this point jazzy, rocky, even synthesizer type of music--anything except soft classical music. She's moving in the right direction in this regard, though.

3. Her hair cut is nice, but lose that patch of black hair at the bottom. Either make it all blonde, all black, or maybe light brown with highlights. She might look good as a redhead, too. (This isn't actually a reason, but I put it as #3 anyway.

4. Possible some sort of anti-American sentiment--although it didn't affect Evan at the last Olympics or Alissa at Skate Canada. I wish they would show which judge from what country gave what score again.

5. Bad luck. She was in 4th after the short program. The rare time she doesn't skate clean is when she had a weak field. She should have won this. Also, why is she always against judges' darlings Kanako and Carolina? They've probably already decided those two will win gold and silver at worlds, if YuNa doesn't come back. Probably nobody could beat those two no matter what they do. They are female Patrick Chans.

6.

[R.D.]

And I liked this LP at Skate America how much she seemed to be enjoying her routine! It so much easier to enjoy something when the performer seems to be enjoying it.

It just makes you Smile.

Well said.

This is exactly what I look for in a show performance.

But competitively, is it enough? Well, Rachel was a case study here in that it's not, even with the jumps to back it up. You need to be calculating in your approach, or you will get hacked. Always.

[Mrs. P]

So I rewatched the programs w/o the music and yes, it seems that Kankano actually just goes through the jumps. Rachael had a little bit of that at the beginning, but then it went away after a while.

And actually if you stop focusing on her haircut, music, whatever, you actually notice she has some nice transitions. She does take ballet classes, I believe and I could see that in action here.

[PolymerBob]

Comparing Rachael to Kanako, I would say that Rachael jumped better in the LP. Then again, I am the guy who believes skating should not just be about jumping, so maybe that is the trend in skating this season.

[dorispulaski]

I thought Rachael did quite well at telling the kind of cheesy story of "Slaughter", but it surely is not my favorite piece of music.

[Joesitz]

I think you bring up a good and fresh point.
If Abbott and Flatt were IMG's athletes, would their PCS have been 'a little' higher than current scores?
Anyway, I think that power federation '+' IMG = firm infra for PCS.
(reputation + power federation + IMG = perfect triangle )

We don't know of any conspiracy theories going around since 2002 Olys which in fact, the conspiracy was confirmed. Who did Legougne(sp) conspire with?

What we have now is simply nationalistic favorities from Feds and fans. If there is enough diverse judges in a competition, we should be clear of conspiracies. However Judges are human and that's an unproveable factor.

[Joesitz]

Reputation comes in two parts: Good and Bad.

The consensus of the judges is that Rachael does not have a good reputation, and will always place less than gold. It's the Reliability that keeps her in the International Top 10.

Much of Figure Skating is still judged by the 6.0 system of opinion except for a wee amount of quantifiable Tech.

We could list the skaters who will never win regardless of their reliable Tech. Falls, for example are deadly for some and a wrist slap for those with good reputations.

The CoP, imo, is judged not on what is seen, but on what one has acquired in Reputation. Entertainment is the unscored elemnt in figure skating, and it carries the most significance in scoring.

[janetfan]

Reputation comes in two parts: Good and Bad.

The consensus of the judges is that Rachael does not have a good reputation, and will always place less than gold. It's the Reliability that keeps her in the International Top 10.

Much of Figure Skating is still judged by the 6.0 system of opinion except for a wee amount of quantifiable Tech.

We could list the skaters who will never win regardless of their reliable Tech. Falls, for example are deadly for some and a wrist slap for those with good reputations.

The CoP, imo, is judged not on what is seen, but on what one has acquired in Reputation. Entertainment is the unscored elemnt in figure skating, and it carries the most significance in scoring.

Interesting thoughts - but isn't limiting reputation to "good and bad" a little like seeing everything as "black and white"?
Could you expand it to good, average and bad?

I think Rachael would atleast fall into the average category as pointed out by mathman in his previous post.

The "entertainment factor" seems undeniable - but fans and judges have different ideas about what is entertaining.

Some think Kanako is entertaining and others find her so cute it annoys them.
Should there be a mark for entertainment? Like skating skills isn't it part of all of the components and even the elements? "Alissa has very entertaining spins" or "I love watching Yuna's spread eagle into a 2A+3T jump." Some fans live for quads.

But the entertainment mark/factor goes beyond the skating. Some fans like programs more if they like the music the skater has chosen - and less if they don't like the music.
"I like Mao's skating but did not feel entertained by her LP last season because the MUSIC was too heavy." Fans and judges may have felt that way as we saw Yuna win the LP at Worlds last season despite making more mistakes than normal.

Costumes play a part as well in the entertainment factor. Some fans like Johnny's costumes as much as his skating. Button commented that perhaps the judges feel differently.
I read more comments about Miki's costumes last season than about her skating.

It's all part of the "pageant" or entertainment factor since skating became marketable as a TV sport. When the figures were deemed too boring for broadcasts they were reduced and then eliminated. Did the ISU also recognize that if skaters no longer had to spend 3 hours a day practicing their figures more and bigger jumps would follow? I am sure that had to be part of it. Many fans think jumps are the most entertaining part of skating.

The entertainment factor is important in all sports that want to be presented on TV. Baseball changed it rules when ratings when down, the NBA added the 3 point shot to open up the floor and the NFL made hitting a quarterback too hard a crime punishable by hefty fines and suspension because NFL football loses too much of it's entertainemnt value when half or more of the leagues starting quarterbacks are sitting out due to injuries.

The idea that the most important factor in skating is "blades on ice" seems false to me. If that were true would ISU ever have eliminated the figures.? Janet's freeskating was more entertaining and far more marketable than Trixie's figures to TV audiences and fans filling up the arenas.

The most important factor in skating and what drives ISU is money. Good entertainment equals more money. The CoP is successful in newer markets where fans never followed the sport in the past. In the traditional markets it has lost some of it's lustre.

Kanako is a rising star with more entertainment value to ISU than Rachael. It is not surprising the judges gave her the Gold. They would have given it to her at NHK as well if she did not fall down so many times.

[Mathman]

But the entertainment mark/factor goes beyond the skating. Some fans like programs more if they like the music the skater has chosen - and less if they don't like the music...

Costumes play a part as well in the entertainment factor. Some fans like Johnny's costumes as much as his skating. Button commented that perhaps the judges feel differently.
I read more comments about Miki's costumes last season than about her skating.

It's all part of the "pageant" or entertainment factor since skating became marketable as a TV sport. When the figures were deemed too boring for broadcasts they were reduced and then eliminated...

The entertainment factor is important in all sports that want to be presented on TV. Baseball changed it rules when ratings when down, the NBA added the 3 point shot to open up the floor and the NFL made hitting a quarterback too hard a crime punishable by hefty fines and suspension because NFL football loses too much of it's entertainemnt value when half or more of the leagues starting quarterbacks are sitting out due to injuries.

The idea that the most important factor in skating is "blades on ice" seems false to me. If that were true would ISU ever have eliminated the figures?...

And yet...I don't think this tells the whole story. Money is cool (it is certainly better than no money ), but by the same token we don't want to sell our souls for thirty pieces of silver. On COI the most popular acts were the hula-hoop girl (Irina Gregorian ) and the acrobats. Gary Beacon put on a great show when he stood on his head on the ice. Yagudin got big applause when he entered the arena by climbing down a rope. Dan Hollander's comedy is always entertaining. Earlier, it was Frick and Frack who were kings of the ice.

As for other sports, yes the NFL makes periodic rule changes to keep their sport entertaiing. But does football ireally attract more viewers because of the amazing choreography of a wide reciever's dance in the end zone. (I have to concede, however, that cheerleaders liven up the show.)

I do think that figure skating is blades-on-ice. If it were about jumping, costumes, etc., why do it on ice? You can jump in a pretty costume on dry land.

It is quite true that the ISU eleiminated figures in order to make the sport more appealing on television. That fact that they did it, however, does not necessarilty mean that the decision was the right one or that every future decision must continue in the same direction.

[ever]

I am suddenly curious if judges are really competent for scoring PCS.
I think when some controversial cases pop up,
the charges are always in connection with judges not skaters.
Then, why judges are so controvesial?