Choreographers- Go to a former skater or a former dancer?

[blue dog]

Janetfan's reply on another thread prompted the start of this one:

Do you see that as a bad thing? An "outsider" doing skating choreo......
My feeling is that Lori and David might be doing too many programs and we see too much of the same style - I call it the "mini Yuna syndrome."

It is not really fair to compare Christina or MJ to Yuna - but we see such similar looking choreographic gestures that if is hard not to think of them as little Yuna clones at times. Some have even mentioned the same thing after watching Rippon skate.

No doubt a choreographer with a skating background can make the job of the coach alot easier since most of the choreo will have been conceived by a former skater.

But what about creativity and new ideas? Let's consider a good Dance choreographer working with a skater. What if some of the ideas do not translate so well or easily to skating? Isn't that something for the coach to consider since he/she knows his skater's abilities quite well?

I find it really strange that so many posts lament the use of yet another "Carmen," "Firebird" and other music that is used so often without ever hearing a peep about so much recycled choreography.

I am not a Dancer and don't pretend to have choreographic expertise. I do think part of the argument that the CoP has made too much of the skating look the same has much to do with the levels. But isn't it also possible some fresh new ideas for choreo and general presentation are needed?

Some would argue that since skating and dance are similar yet different, it would be best to go to a former skater. Also, a former skater knows the nuances of the rules and how to get around those (if I remember correctly, David Wilson had Kim Yu Na hold the opening of her Miss Saigon program five seconds longer, so that her double axel/triple toe would get the bonus, since it would fall after the halfway point).

However, a former dancer could bring a fresh perspective on a piece of music. They also have a different idea of how the character should be portrayed, perhaps based on what they know of the history of that particular ballet, or piece of music (Charlene Franks' choreography for Rudy Galindo in 1996, or the late Elena Tcherkaskaia's choreography for Angela Nikodinov).

What do you think?

[miki88]

I don't think it really matters much. The real problem is that once a choreographer achieves success with a certain skater, he or she will get a lot of offers from other skaters. As a result, you get a lot of programs that look too similar in styles, music selection, etc. Also, what may work for one skater won't necessarily work for another skater.

[Wicked]

This is why I think Stephane would be the ultimate skate choreographer- he is both a dancer and a skater.

[silver.blades]

I think that working with a dance choreographer could yeild very interesting results. Didn't Lambiel have a program choreographed by a flemenco dancer? I think if a skater is going to work with a dancer though, you need to have a consultant who has a skating background and understands the COP for competition programs so the skater isn't at a disadvantage.

[dorispulaski]

Working with both seems to work quite well in dance. D&W's Bollywood was a true collaboration between Z&S and a Bollywood choregrapher; all the parties interviewed seemed to agree on that. I think that might be the best way to go about it, rather than going to the dance choreographer first and having the skating coach trying to pick up the levels later, as NavBoms did. When you go to the dance choreographer first, the program is apt to get dumbed down later. I think you need to have both involved very early on.

[janetfan]

This is why I think Stephane would be the ultimate skate choreographer- he is both a dancer and a skater.

With apologies to Pogue - it is well documented that Lambiel hates the CoP.
I agree he could be a great choreographer for exhibition programs and shows - but wonder if a guy who has repeatedly stated how awful the CoPs ideas are about artistry would put together winning programs.

The truth is that Lambiel has better taste in choreography than what the CoP values.....

[Tinymavy15]

With apologies to Pogue - it is well documented that Lambiel hates the CoP.
I agree he could be a great choreographer for exhibition programs and shows - but wonder if a guy who has repeatedly stated how awful the CoPs ideas are about artistry would put together winning programs.

The truth is that Lambiel has better taste in choreography than what the CoP values.....

Good point. I think that is why Dai did not go with Stephane's Amelie SP this season. He claimed he woudl try both, but seems to be sticking to the Latin program which has proven strong under IJS.

[janetfan]

Good point. I think that is why Dai did not go with Stephane's Amelie SP this season. He claimed he woudl try both, but seems to be sticking to the Latin program which has proven strong under IJS.

I never saw the program Lambiel did for Dai but have to wonder if it was CoP friendly enough.....

A bigger question I have is why there is so much moaning about the same music being used - but no one seems to notice how Wilson is using similar choreo with several gestures being seem over and over and over and over......to the point that I am considering kitchen breaks when his programs are up.

Lori has become hit or miss for me......loved her "Pirates" for Mira last season - but think Mirai is due a refund for this years SP.

Rachael has last year's SP with parts of this year's SP and LP repeating the same gestures -and not to pick on Rachael - but hello - this is not original or innovative choreo. In my biz we would say Lori is :recycling." And so is Wilson.

I would rather see ten skaters in a row skate to "Carmen" because it is great music. This recycled choreo is not so great and is getting kind of boring.

There are no mini -Yuna's. Yuna is unique. But we certainly see parts of her choreo with Wilson's clients.
He has run out of ideas - or has too many skaters.

I think this is awfully obvious ................

Carmen all night - yes. Mini Yunas - no thanks

[Wicked]

With apologies to Pogue - it is well documented that Lambiel hates the CoP.
I agree he could be a great choreographer for exhibition programs and shows - but wonder if a guy who has repeatedly stated how awful the CoPs ideas are about artistry would put together winning programs.

The truth is that Lambiel has better taste in choreography than what the CoP values.....

While he might hate CoP, it never stopped him from having beautiful programs. I would have loved to see what he created for Daisuke.

[prettykeys]

Aren't Ice Dancers...skaters...who are dancers? They wouldn't be a bad choice as a group. Sort of like an in-between of the choices in this thread.

Shae-Lynn Bourne seems like a creative choreographer, from what I've seen.