Men - Short Program

[ImaginaryPogue]

Bluebonnet, the best a Chan triple Axel has scored is straight +2 GOEs, one +3 (which is an additional 2.0 to the base value). I'm referring to his triple axel in the short program at 4CC 2009 (protocols here).

[ImaginaryPogue]

For me it breaks down as:

Chan was better in Skating Skills and Choreography.

Abbott was better in Performance and Interpretation.

I think that a lot of Chan's moves look better on their own but they don't necessarily speak to the music better and he doesn't necessarily put a lot of soul and energy into the performance, even if he does move across the ice superbly.

They are about equal for me on PCS with those performances. Chan wins on technical merit because his spins were a lot better. If Jeremy's spins were better that would not only help his technical mark, but also his choreography. I really dislike the cross-foot sit-spin that several of the skaters are trying to do this season. His flying upright spin was not impressive either.

And transitions?

[Hikaru]

Fernandez' CoR SP

Thanks!

[Blades of Passion]

And transitions?

Equal.

[Bluebonnet]

Bluebonnet, the best a Chan triple Axel has scored is straight +2 GOEs, one +3 (which is an additional 2.0 to the base value). I'm referring to his triple axel in the short program at 4CC 2009 (protocols here).

Thanks for the info! I've never paid much attention on details of his jumps because he wasn't my favorites.

[Nadine]

Only read a few pages of this thread earlier this afternoon, but what I read hasn't encouraged me to read anymore.

I'm neither for or against Chan, but it's easy to see the ones that are (lol, he seems to bring out polar opposites), and therefore I feel I cannot trust either sides' opinions.

Nor am I interested enough to watch the Mens Sps for myself because I am still coming off a high from seeing Skate America in person, and as a consequence IN no longer gives me that high. I now realize how limited watching skating on t.v. is as opposed to actually being there. Still, I hope to garner enough excitement/energy to watch the FSs, but I'm not too sure. Having skating come on at 4AM PST for the Mens Sps doesn't do it for me, nor does the 3:45AM FS. I'd honestly rather sleep.

I wish them all good luck!

[Layfan]

For me it breaks down as:

Chan was better in Skating Skills and Choreography.

Abbott was better in Performance and Interpretation.

I think that a lot of Chan's moves look better on their own but they don't necessarily speak to the music better and he doesn't necessarily put a lot of soul and energy into the performance, even if he does move across the ice superbly.

They are about equal for me on PCS with those performances. Chan wins on technical merit because his spins were a lot better. If Jeremy's spins were better that would not only help his technical mark, but also his choreography. I really dislike the cross-foot sit-spin that several of the skaters are trying to do this season. His flying upright spin was not impressive either.

I think i know which one you mean and I think its' pretty ugly ... definitely a good point about abbot's spins. too bad. Chan's performance tells me that he loves to skate but not as much to perform.

[Joesitz]

Patrick's SP skate was standard, and imo, deserved high scores but more than a -1 for the Fall.

Jeremy's SP skate was unique! The very sinuous approach to his skating and the use of that music, left the judges unprepared for anything that is UNIQUE. I still think Jeremy has to work on it to make it more like standard sport rather than the unpresedented performance if he wants a gold medal. Ask any judge how difficult it is to score with CoP, and the answer will be that it is easy. They are not looking for anything complicated.

[prettykeys]

Bluebonnet, the best a Chan triple Axel has scored is straight +2 GOEs, one +3 (which is an additional 2.0 to the base value). I'm referring to his triple axel in the short program at 4CC 2009 (protocols here).

I don't even need to YouTube that performance to know which 3Axel you are referring to...! It's his Tango de los Exilados program, and I agree, that 3A was gorgeous.

Jeremy Abbott is one of my favourite current male skaters. I must say that I don't like his programs too much this year, but I do want him to do well.

Having said that, I must also admit that Patrick Chan's 4T is very exciting to me. His 4T-3T was a beauty! I can't believe just like that, he does that combination perfectly...when there were no quads being landed consistently just the season before. I've always considered a quad to be a trademark (even if it's not essential) part of modern men's figure skating. Yes, he runs his mouth tactlessly against other skaters I like, but somehow I couldn't level hate towards that. It just always seemed like he was speaking his mind, and I appreciate candor.

And for those who are now criticizing his lack of a consistent 3A, you know...as I said, he just got his 4T. It is a difficult jump to attain and master, and it was probably the focus of his practices for the last little while. A little bit of inconsistency when you are learning something new is the norm, not the exception. When he feels confident with his 4T, he may yet regain his 3A and then put it all together. It is easier to re-train oneself than to attain a brand new skill. I just detect some stinginess on the part of people who don't like him. You don't have to like him--but his 4T-3T was marvelous, and the rest of his program is not bare in order to compensate for it. Chan could skate with a little bit more flair and engagement, but it was a pretty good skate.

I liked reading bluebonnet, imaginarypogue, BoP and some others' comments on him. :]

[LisaS]

If you look at Chan's protocols, without GOE his base value was 4 points higher then either Verner or Abbot. Those 4 points are = 1 fall. Plus due to his Quad Combo being done as well as it was he received excellent GOE's on it. So while you may complain about Chan because he fell, it really is the scoring system that led to this result.

[bekalc]

If you look at Chan's protocols, without GOE his base value was 4 points higher then either Verner or Abbot. Those 4 points are = 1 fall. Plus due to his Quad Combo being done as well as it was he received excellent GOE's on it. So while you may complain about Chan because he fell, it really is the scoring system that led to this result.

I actually don't have a problem with Patrick's short program win. Although I'd have liked to see the lead maybe a little less, because the boy did fall.

[ImaginaryPogue]

For an interesting side note, if you were to invalidate all elements with a fall (so the skater earned no points for them), Chan would still be in second place. Contesti would be in third.