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Thread: Pairs - Short Program

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by smia View Post
    Some Russian dance teams are overscored, true, but Russian pairs? See how Iliushechkina/Maisuradze were dumped at Cup of China after winning Skate Canada. Even at Skate Canada they were a bit underscored, getting lower PCS than Moore-Towers/Moscovitch is just fishy. Moore-Towers doesn't even come close to Iliushechkina. Generalizing a bit but Russian pairs tend to have the lines, the elegance and style that happens to be rare in pair skating, that's why they tend to get good scores. Besides some Russian teams, there's Savchenko/Szolkowy and Takahashi/Tran who are very polished but most pairs look a bit sloppy.
    Anyway before you criticise the scoring for Russian pairs perhaps you should look at the scoring for pairs from your own country. Pang/Tong: unextended lift positions, their spins also don't have great positions and unison needs work, and she has wierd posture. And I've also seen it mentioned that their skating is scratchy although I'm not in a position to judge. In any case, they get huge PCS scores as if there's nothing they need to work on. I'm sorry but a great smile is not enough to justify those kinds of presentation scores. Same thing with Shen/Zhao. 2004 Worlds, they botched a lift yet got a stream of 6.0s. At the Olympics they again botched a lift and had poor spins and again got scores as if they'd been perfect.
    First of all, scores in figure skating are RELATIVE. S/Z in 2004 worlds should have gotten 6.0s simply because T/M got a bunch of 5.9 and since S/Z was still better then only 6.0s could be given. Same in the Olympics. Also, perfect in CoP is 10.0 which S/Z haven't received yet (other than from like one judge)

    Secondly, quality of lifts and spins are reflected in the GoE, unless if its a massive fall that would affect the entire performance.

    Lastly, lines and posture does not equal to the entire PCS

    Ever since 6.0 got changed to CoP, lines and extension no longer (at least IMO not supposed to) have the huge importance they do in 6.0. One look in the program component overview and you would notice that line and extension only truly factor in 1/5th of the PC score (in performance/execution) and even then its still only a portion next to emotion, variety in tempo and a bunch of stuff unrelated to lines. I also never knew that "elegance" is now a part of program component...I've always thought that as long as your movements match the program and done at high quality then it would be marked well.

    IMO this is how it should be...its figure skating, not Ice Ballet with jumps (just as it is not "ice jumping"). Theoretically, someone could choose some rock music and skate with horrible lines and should still be able to get decent SS/Transition/Choreo/Interpretation mark if the judges are marking the program objectively. (and not based on pre-determined types of "good" programs).

    Back on topic however, I think G/E was placed right. They did get lower PCs in comparison to E/L, and its was the higher level TES that puts them ahead.
    Last edited by UnChosen; 11-20-2010 at 12:35 AM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Kavaguti, imo, skates like a wind-up doll, and Smirnov skates in a separate competition. They have absolutely NO RAPPORT with each other. However, the Tech was fine.
    This is exactly how I feel about Kavaguti/Smirnov. I really want to like them--Smirnov seems like such a chill guy and Kavaguti works so hard and she obviously wants it so much--but there always seems to be something missing. They don't really skate as one as per the pairs ideal....

    Sometimes I think that K/S really suffer from the burden of expectations, not only because they're a Russian pair, but because they're also a Moskvina pair. I guess objectively, K/S are a decent pair but (for me at least) I always expect more of them, that they show the brilliance of Mishkutenok/Dmitriev or Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze. I wonder what the pressure from their federation is like, especially with characters like Piseev lurking around.

  3. #48
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    K/V try to do long programs too difficult for them to handle and end up making mistakes. I found their score actually quite low for a pretty clean skate. It probably worries them a bit. Maybe the Russian federation has already targeted Volosozhar & Trankov as their new #1.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
    First of all, scores in figure skating are RELATIVE. S/Z in 2004 worlds should have gotten 6.0s simply because T/M got a bunch of 5.9 and since S/Z was still better then only 6.0s could be given.
    The scoring at that years Worlds was also a joke. The judges were giving out 6.0s and 5.9s like candy. I actually thought the LP decision between T&M and S&Z would be closer since T&M were atleast squeeky clean and extremely precise and polished, even if not very emotional or exciting (as usual).

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
    Back on topic however, I think G/E was placed right. They did get lower PCs in comparison to E/L, and its was the higher level TES that puts them ahead.
    Yeah, E/L only got Level 2 on the death spiral and the SBS spins (he was quite shaky during two spin positions). They only had a Level 3 lift while the top three all had Level 4. They also received some -GOE for their bobble on the triple twist. And of course, the 3T got downgraded. There were no big errors, but the little things added up.

    Aside from the random ridiculous GOE (like the three judges who gave K/S +1 on their crashy triple twist ), I don't see much wrong with the scoring.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    This is exactly how I feel about Kavaguti/Smirnov. I really want to like them--Smirnov seems like such a chill guy and Kavaguti works so hard and she obviously wants it so much--but there always seems to be something missing. They don't really skate as one as per the pairs ideal....

    Sometimes I think that K/S really suffer from the burden of expectations, not only because they're a Russian pair, but because they're also a Moskvina pair. I guess objectively, K/S are a decent pair but (for me at least) I always expect more of them, that they show the brilliance of Mishkutenok/Dmitriev or Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze. I wonder what the pressure from their federation is like, especially with characters like Piseev lurking around.
    I think too many people (and I mean rabid fans) are always trying to compare skaters from the past. Not everyone was a fan of M/D or B/S or for God's sake G/G. This pair is really unique in the choreography and the way they skate. I don't think anyone puts as much pressure on them as they put on themselves, and most of the time they deliver. They almost always get a medal at competitions and have never lost a GP medal in 4 years. They haven't been together for very long and I think what they have accomplished is amazing!

    Moskvina hasn't always had great success with pairs, some have failed miserably.

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