Cup of Russia FD Preview and Virtual Program, Sat. Nov. 20; 12:40 PM EST | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Cup of Russia FD Preview and Virtual Program, Sat. Nov. 20; 12:40 PM EST

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Overall scoring

FPl. Name Nation Points SD FD
1 Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV RUS 154.33 1 1
2 Nora HOFFMANN / Maxim ZAVOZIN HUN 142.09 3 3
3 Elena ILINYKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS 134.79 6 2
4 Kristina GORSHKOVA / Vitali BUTIKOV RUS 127.47 4 4
5 Lucie MYSLIVECKOVA / Matej NOVAK CZE 123.70 7 5
WD Federica FAIELLA / Massimo SCALI ITA 2

Overall for GP
D&W 30 pts
Bobrova
WD Madison HUBBELL / Keiffer HUBBELL USA 5
WD Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM CAN 8

On the GP
D&W with 30 points and a 1st place with 321.89
Pechalat, I assume they win next week
C&P with 28 points and a 1st place 303.5
B&S with with 28 points, and a 1st place 299.72
W&P with 22 points, a 2nd place & 283.91,
H&Z with 22 points, a 2nd place & 272.91
S&S with 22 points, a 3rd place & 281.74

Pechalat already have a 1st place. Unless they have the contagious back problem or whatever it is from COR, they will have 30 points.

For C&Z to make the GPF, they need to place 2nd at TEB, which would give them 24 points. Looks like W&P make the GPF, however TEB turns out. H&Z might, or C&Z might.
 
Last edited:

samba

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Doris, thanks for your math. The GP results have been very interesting this year.
 

L'amour

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Dance competoton have been crazy lately. D/W and C/P fell on skate america. F/S having skirt problem in china. I/K having a freej error on a lift...and now...3 team out.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Ah, but the Czech's crazy essay on how uplifting and change of tempo is not as good a thing as the ISU thinks was worth price of admission.

Plus I like the gypsy dance of H&Z.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
What happened to the Hubbells? Back pain also?

Yep - looks like the back injury was contagious as all three couples complained of the same problem. Apparently Keiffer was the injured skater for the Americans. Altogether it was a very ho-hum event.
 

Tigger

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Just before the CBC FD broadcast, they had a Phone Interview w/Michael Slipchuk and it's not so much a back injury w/Alex, as it is a rib problem. Since the nerves affected are also linked to the back...The Medical Staff at CoR w/Team Canada felt it was better they w/d instead of making things worse. Smart move IMO.

OMG...I've still got chills from the Russian Team. First FD of the Season to do that to me. They are simply beautiful to watch and I adore their knees. They don't look like they're skating so much as they're floating over the ice. W/out a doubt a team to keep an eye on and they have new fan in me as of today. :)
 

GiuliaPlum

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
OMG...I've still got chills from the Russian Team. First FD of the Season to do that to me. They are simply beautiful to watch and I adore their knees. They don't look like they're skating so much as they're floating over the ice. W/out a doubt a team to keep an eye on and they have new fan in me as of today. :)

you mean ILINYKH / KATSALAPOV? same here. i'm officially in love with this golden couple. it's the first time a team makes me think "please don't stop skating!" since Virtue/Moir's performances.
She is really gorgeous, more beautiful than a real swan.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
I really loved the changes ILINYKH / KATSALAPOV made to their FD! They sure worked hard since NHK. I don't understand their lower PCS score here that in Japan(well in the SD, it's quite obvious, but in the FD?). Maybe I am subjective because I find them immensely talented. But come on, only 2 points higher then GORSHKOVA/BUTIKOV? I like BOBROVA / SOLOVIEV but I'm afraid that they are now established as Russia's nr 1 and ILINYKH / KATSALAPOV will have to wait for their turn
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, I think that's true, that B&S are now ensconced as Russia #1-after, a silver, a gold, and a trip to the GPF, vs a 4th and a bronze behind the Hungarians. This was not the summer for I/K to take time off--or if they were going to do so, they should have stayed in Juniors and won another championship there. It is easy to forget that they are 16 and 19 only.

I'm assuming their PCS are a bit low due to slightly lower speed than H/Z and B/S? Their edges are nice, but when they go to get high levels in step sequences, they seemed to me to slow down a bit. That's usually how that works-and it is the typical problem that top juniors have coming to seniors in dance. In juniors you can skate slower, get Level 4's and win. In seniors, you have to go faster, and something always is lost the first year or two-either the speed, or the unison of legline, or the levels on the skills.

It does not help that they had such a disruptive fall in the SD, the problem being not so much the fall, but the long time it took them to get reorganized after it. Sometimes marks seem to go down a bit in the PCS in consequence, although that should not be so.

It is ironic that of the 3 top teams coming up from juniors this year that the Shibutanis scored the best (vs I&K and Paul & Islam), when they were only 4th last year at Jr Worlds. However, Maia growing 3 inches this summer really helped their look on the ice.
 
Last edited:

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Well, I really thought the Shibutanis were undermarked in the last Jr worlds. And I believe that, while I do like I/K more, the Shibs are wonderful and the most prepared of all the junior teams coming to seniors this season. Still, to their defense, I/K are skating together since 2008-2009.(and P/I since 2009)
B/S are for now the best russian team, that's clear, but my fear is that evan if I/K will improve over time, they will never ever pass B/S(with Tatiana Tarasova favoring B/S) a It's probably to early to make any prediction, plus,with Monko/Khaliavin in the mix next season, you never know!
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
I've always liked B/S ,but haven't always liked their programs ( and I'm not referring to their Russian sailor dance of last year which I thought was really well done, and a playful departure ). Though I have a bit of a personal aversion to Delilah , I like the skating in their SD..;) and I do like their FD ; the music is very lovely,and certainly fresh in the skating world , and there are some really nice bits in their choreography. But while I think it's pretty clear they'll be #1 for Russia this year, I think they'll have keep on their toes because all bets may be off next year.
We know the Russian Fed will want to see I/K moving up as soon as possible ( and I'm wondering if that may include a coaching change along the way between now and Sochi , since most of TAT 's critique of the team had to do with Zhulin's coaching ) And we know that K/A will enter the fray at Russian nationals. Where will they figure in the equation ? ( I'm so hoping that there will be some coverage from Golden Spin to help with our handicapping. Even though it's very close to Russian Nats., my curiosity wants the soonest possible satisfaction.) :biggrin:
I think the Shibs have one great advantage over the other new seniors, so far(beyond the ease that comes from skating together for years ) ; that being their excellent ( I might even say genius ) programs. Z/S have not fallen into the trap of equating " maturity " with passion expressed between partners. The Shibs maturity is evident in their confidence and poise and their ability to express the character of the music , instead of trying to embody characters from a story. Their costuming is simple , yet mature and won't suffer by comparison to anyone else.

P/I have the question of whether or not they're trying to emulate V/M ( or ride on their coat tails ) and although I/K's costumes are very nice ,I mentioned earlier that I felt a tutu might cause them to skate a little farther apart than they otherwise might..and of course, the negative side of that would be if some judges thought that it was a choice made to disguise the fact that they don't skate that close together..

I think we can put to rest the outrageous expectations that people voiced last summer of I/K leaping up to world medal stature..( or of P/I just walking into #2 for Canada behind V/M ).

And in the meantime, here come the Shibs , just ready , nothing to get in their way. I'm enjoying watching their ride.

I'm still very high on I/K and P/I , but they do have some things to work out to be at their best this season.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I'm still very high on I/K and P/I , but they do have some things to work out to be at their best this season.

Rome was not built overnight....Give them some time.

The best debut in the seniors since the 80's was V/M's, even them they didn't become national champions right away, and ended up 6th in the world which was freaking unbelievable, but they were jelled together for a decade before, so you cannot compare these cases.
The majority of the former junior world champions come in their first world championship in seniors around 10-13 range, a top 10 finish is already exceptional. And Sochi is far away. So let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 
Last edited:

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:) I agree completely herios..I really just mean their best for this season, which I don't expect to be the pinnacle of what they can potentially achieve.

I think there's been far too much comparison of P/I to V/M ( based on her appearance on the ice.) which is not very fair to P/I ,saddling them with unreasonable expectations, IMO. I don't compare them, but many do... At least I/K are not having to live up to similar comparisons to any particular Russian icons. But they do have fans that were predicting they'd come up to seniors and take everything in sight , after their success at Jr. Worlds.:eek:

I'm impressed with the progress of both, and with the retirement ( and injury ) of so many couples this year, they could actually wind up with a very good world placement ( an advantage I think V/M and D/W did not have in their Sr. debut year ?) I don't remember really clearly, someone else might.
 
Last edited:

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
As to D&W's and V&M's first worlds, it was 2007:


1 Albena Denkova / Maxim Staviski Bulgaria 201.61 2 1 1
2 Marie-France Dubreuil / Patrice Lauzon Canada 200.46 1 3 2
3 Tanith Belbin / Benjamin Agosto United States 195.43 5 2 4
4 Isabelle Delobel / Olivier Schoenfelder France 195.19 4 5 3
5 Oksana Domnina / Maxim Shabalin Russia 193.44 3 4 5
6 Tessa Virtue / Scott Moir Canada 183.94 9 6 6
7 Meryl Davis / Charlie White United States 179.14 10 8 7
8 Jana Khokhlova / Sergei Novitski Russia 178.29 6 7 8
9 Federica Faiella / Massimo Scali Italy 170.75 7 9 11
10 Melissa Gregory / Denis Petukhov United States 170.08 11 10 9
11 Sinead Kerr / John Kerr United Kingdom 167.14 8 11 12
12 Nathalie Péchalat / Fabian Bourzat France 162.05 14 13 10
13 Anna Cappellini / Luca Lanotte Italy 158.83 12 16 13
14 Alexandra Zaretski / Roman Zaretski Israel 156.52 13 12 14
15 Nozomi Watanabe / Akiyuki Kido Japan 152.21 15 17 15
16 Kristin Fraser / Igor Lukanin Azerbaijan 152.10 16 14 16
17 Anna Zadorozhniuk / Sergei Verbillo Ukraine 148.13 17 15 17
18 Nelli Zhiganshina / Alexander Gazsi Germany 142.87 20 18 19
19 Grethe Gruenberg / Kristian Rand Estonia 141.55 23 19 18
20 Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje Canada 140.14 18 23 20
21 Huang Xintong / Zheng Xun China 138.44 19 22 21
22 Anastasia Grebenkina / Vazgen Azrojan Armenia 137.07 21 21 23
23 Katherine Copely / Deividas Stagniūnas Lithuania 136.63 24 20 22
24 Olga Akimova / Alexander Shakalov Uzbekistan 130.58 22 24 24

Here's the top 24 from Worlds 2006:
Rank Name Nation Total Points CD OD FD
1 Albena Denkova / Maxim Staviski Bulgaria 199.14 1 1 3
2 Marie-France Dubreuil / Patrice Lauzon Canada 198.69 2 3 1
3 Tanith Belbin / Benjamin Agosto United States 196.74 3 4 4
4 Margarita Drobiazko / Povilas Vanagas Lithuania 195.87 5 5 2
5 Isabelle Delobel / Olivier Schoenfelder France 195.44 4 2 5
6 Galit Chait / Sergei Sakhnovski Israel 181.29 6 7 6
7 Oksana Domnina / Maxim Shabalin Russia 178.39 7 6 7
8 Federica Faiella / Massimo Scali Italy 172.10 9 10 8
9 Melissa Gregory / Denis Petukhov United States 171.06 10 9 10
10 Megan Wing / Aaron Lowe Canada 170.51 8 8 11
11 Sinead Kerr / John Kerr United Kingdom 167.83 12 11 9
12 Jana Khokhlova / Sergei Novitski Russia 162.15 11 16 12
13 Christina Beier / William Beier Germany 154.94 13 14 13
14 Kristin Fraser / Igor Lukanin Azerbaijan 154.28 14 13 15
15 Nathalie Péchalat / Fabian Bourzat France 154.00 15 12 17
16 Morgan Matthews / Maxim Zavozin United States 152.97 16 18 14
17 Nozomi Watanabe / Akiyuki Kido Japan 152.96 17 15 16
18 Nóra Hoffmann / Attila Elek Hungary 150.78 18 17 18
19 Alexandra Kauc / Michał Zych Poland 144.21 19 20 19
20 Alexandra Zaretski / Roman Zaretski Israel 140.14 24 22 20
21 Anna Zadorozhniuk / Sergei Verbillo Ukraine 139.72 21 21 21
22 Yu Xiaoyang / Wang Chen China 136.14 23 23 22
23 Elena Romanovskaya / Alexander Grachev Russia 135.43 20 19 24
24 Alla Beknazarova / Vladimir Zuev Ukraine 132.00 22 24 23

The 3 teams that had retired from the top 12 were Chait & Sakhonovsky, Drobiazko & Vanagas, and Wing & Lowe.

This year the missing teams are:
Delobel & Schoenfelder
Belbin & Agosto
Domnina & Shabalin
Navarro & Bommentre
Khoklova & Novitski
Zaretski & Zarestski :eek:: Thanks colleen!

The injured who may recover in time for worlds are
Kerr & Kerr
Faiella & Scali

and those who may miss worlds, but will be back.
Virtue and Moir
Samuelson and Bates
 
Last edited:

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:) Thanks, doris, ..and the Zars are gone too, aren't they ?

Then too, there's the further unfortunate disarray in the Italian team where new teams who are well prepared could steal a march on C/L if they don't get a good FD right quick , and A/V, who might have been expected to be part of the "new senior onslaught" , may be hampered by injury ( don't know how serious that is )...and K/A loom as a late entry ,if they can win a spot at their nationals , as direct competitors..

So however well I/K and P/I do at World's ( assuming they're there )..no one will be able to be confident that their places would be at all secure next year.
 
Last edited:

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
The advantage that the Canton quartet had was COP. They were used to it in a way that the senior teams weren't. D/W had the first all level four FD period. V/M were the only team at worlds to have an all level four FD (both had the OD of course). They knew how to earn the high GOEs and that boosted their scores while waiting for the PCS to catch up.

For comparison's sake, if you were to take all the teams on the senior circut and compare the best overall scores (aka, D/W's best score with F/S' best score, etc), the Shibs are 6th, P/I are 11th and I/K are 14th (and would be the third Russian team, which means they wouldn't be at worlds).
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:) That's really interesting , Pogue, because I've been thinking that the Shibs are the ones who come closest to duplicating the sheer , I don't know what to call it..sparkle ?.. that we saw from V/M and D/W in their debut year. Perhaps they can have it because of the years together, as well as excellent training and natural talent..

Some young teams have the years together, but not equal training , some have fine training but not a lot of time together...

Edit :...Had to go away in mid-thought, but I wanted to say it makes for a fascinating puzzle, and has me glued to Ice Dance more than ever this year. It could easily work out that P/I and I/K wind up facing off at 4CC..depending on whether V/M come back for worlds , and how the whole Ice Dance log jam shakes out in Russia..
 
Last edited:

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I/K would be at Euros, I think? Or does Russia only have 2 spots to Euros, too?

P/I & the Shibs could definitely face off at 4CC's, though. P/I have the problem that W/P and C/P both made the GPF. This is not insurmountable.

Injury can affect things, for sure. In D/W's debut year, they had 2 4th's, and Gregory and Petukhov made the last berth on the GPF. One could easily picture them stalled behind G/P for a long time. However, G/P's first event in the 2007/2008 season was Skate Canada. Their Riverdance style OD did not score well, and they suffered a bad injury to both skaters in the FD warmup. By the time they were healed, D&W had become established in the 2nd US spot.

The Shibs-whether or not Maia grew was always the key to this team's future success, I think. And, of course, she did. It is very strange to think that they were only 4th at Jr. Worlds and 3rd at JGPF last year, and of last year's graduating class, they are the ones that so far have done the best.

The thing favoring (or not) this year's kids is that the new lift rules mean that all the established skaters have had to be practicing new lift entries and new lifts. I think this is partially responsible for all the bad backs and other injuries we've been seeing. And injuries can be a chance for younger skaters to shine. In this year, the Shibs with Evan and Emily out.

Another advantage that the kids have is that they did not know the Golden Waltz. The new guidelines have put a crimp in the scores of many of the older teams. P/B and D/W started the year with a real glitch in that area; however both teams recovered nicely and relearned the offending steps (with nobody really mastering the ISU version of the cascade/twizzle in the 2nd sequence yet). F/S were still having problems. However, a slow but precise team could rack up points over an older team. Certainly that was the case for Zhiganshina and Gaszi (GER)

In general, the kids have not been able to take advantage of this. The Golden is just too hard. P/I had a good Golden in their second outing though-and then had other mistakes at CoR. Sort of the same thing happened with I/K. the Shibs had mistakes in both outings in the Golden. If Shibs had mastered the GW and dress management, they would have beaten W/P at NHK, and they would be in the GPF.

I might (or not :) ) start a thread on the subject for people to speculate on the cause of all the injuries.
 
Last edited:

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Russia has 3 spots for Euros, so I tink I/K will make it there(as long as they skate well at Russian nationals). I realized they don't skate well in Russia: at Russian jr nationals last year they made mistakes and were second, far behind Monko and her partner; here, at Cup of Russia, they had a mess of a SD. Hope this trend stops!
Everything will depend on Khokhlova/Andreev: will they become Russia nr. 1? Will they even come to Russian Nationals? Big question mark. I/K chances to make the world team depend on that.(only 2 spots there)
I really hope the Shibs make the world team, they are my favourtie american ice dace team! I lost interest in them last year because of their dreadful FD(honestly, a tango for them is the worst choice ever) but this season: wow! I can see them placing second at US nationals
I'm not a fan of P/I, I honestly don't see any excitement or personality in their skating. Hope they prove me wrong as the season goes by!
 
Top