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Thread: Men's Free Program: 6:45 AM Eastern

  1. #166
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    . But for Verner it is for a different reason than Abbott or Chan because Verner is skating sooo below his potential!! I hope his "haven't been training long enough" does not become like Lysacek's stress fracture. Something to be said over and over as an excuse for skating a backloaded triple program with no quads because quads are hard or may lead to mistakes on other things. And it is just so not believable coincidental that the jump layout and combos of Lysaceks and Verner's skates are almost exactly the same. I don't know if his coach will even go for quads becasue it is up to him to right? If Verner says yes to a quad but the coach says no than the coach wins probably. So either Verner is being held back by the coach or the coach and him are agreeing to no quads and to just "Lysacek it" and just use excuses.
    I really have to disagree here with you about Tomas. Tomas is a skater who was having major consistency issues, and I think it was smart of his coach to decide to dial back on the difficulty, and have Tomas focus on clean programs right now. Once Tomas gets is confidence back, I don't see why they wouldn't add back the quad, given how many points you can get for a quad fall etc, if the quad is going well in practice. Its a good idea though right now I think to first focus on having Tomas land all of the other triples cleanly. I think too in the eyes of the judges, Tomas needed to show he could start skating consistently.

    Tomas is skating better than he's skated in a long time, and I think its a great thing.

    My thing is that clean quads should be rewarded handsomely in this system, but no skater should be encouraged to go for a jump/element they can't do consistently well in practice.
    Last edited by bekalc; 11-20-2010 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #167
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    Can someone explain Abbot's interpretation in his short program. It looked like he was trying to be a snake. his hand movements were weird and made the program look uncomfortable. People on this forum have been saying that he is in a different league to all of the other skaters. please explain. I find his movements contrived and without meaning.

  3. #168
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    Excuse my poor english.....
    I think that tne Canadain Lobying is, really, very strong... With 6 falls Patrick will win the final.......

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan;530722I
    guess Chan is just too superior for most of us to appreciate.
    And that is a big problem for CoP. If a system is too far away from the ordinary people, it's going to hurt this sport.

    I've watched two times for each top three skaters' performances. The impression is the podium was, unfortunately, in the right order.

    Tomas rightfully won but there is nothing to celebrate for. He was not supposed to win with that skating. It was a cheesy music and a cheesy choreography. Shallower than any of podium finish programs. If Chan or Abbott fell less times, he wouldn't have won. I'm not a biggest Tomas fan but I did like his skating. I prefer Chan's and Abbott's programs way more.

    But it's not Tomas's fault to win with a safe bet, clean-program oriented skating. He didn't actually take it. Chan and Abbott handed it to him, unwillingly of course.

    I agree that Chan should be in front of Abbott. Abbott's skating was a mess this time. It was like his soul was scared out somewhere, not with him. Many moves were not in place. He was lucky to be on the podium. At least Chan was still remembering the edges, the skating skills and everything in between the busy, messy falls. Well, too much to be memorized, he forgot he shouldn't do the last combo. It's understandable but unforgivable.

    All in all, a sad ending.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-20-2010 at 08:32 PM.

  5. #170
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    81 points in components....... With 3 falls....... What a shame

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by skate95 View Post
    81 points in components....... With 3 falls....... What a shame
    That's CoP's fault. Like I said, I think Chan did well in between the falls. In the system that chopped everything in pieces and didn't need to glue them together to see what it was as a whole, that was the result.

  7. #172
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    Can someone explain Abbot's interpretation in his short program. It looked like he was trying to be a snake. his hand movements were weird and made the program look uncomfortable. People on this forum have been saying that he is in a different league to all of the other skaters. please explain. I find his movements contrived and without meaning.
    I think they are supposed to be flamenco arm movements. However, his costume does not give the viewer a cue that that this is a flamenco piece.

  8. #173
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I really have to disagree here with you about Tomas. Tomas is a skater who was having major consistency issues, and I think it was smart of his coach to decide to dial back on the difficulty, and have Tomas focus on clean programs right now. Once Tomas gets is confidence back, I don't see why they wouldn't add back the quad, given how many points you can get for a quad fall etc, if the quad is going well in practice. Its a good idea though right now I think to first focus on having Tomas land all of the other triples cleanly. I think too in the eyes of the judges, Tomas needed to show he could start skating consistently.

    Tomas is skating better than he's skated in a long time, and I think its a great thing.

    My thing is that clean quads should be rewarded handsomely in this system, but no skater should be encouraged to go for a jump/element they can't do consistently well in practice.
    I agree with your entire post. Tomas' coach and team have a sensible strategy for him this season and it is paying off with consistency, something that was painfully missing the last couple of seasons.

    Congrats to him for his win. I am doing my happy dance!

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    Hey Silverlake, you are my fellow romanian if I recall ? I hope my memory doesn't fail me, anyway, I am completely in agreement with your message, no matter how much I am proud of the canadians when they are doing well and win on merit, I cannot accept this lovefest Chan is getting all over the place and I feel embarrased and mad.
    Verner on another note deserves every bit of respect, this is a comeback story (I am a big sucker for these), and he has always been a better skater technically than his results showed. He got totally hosed in LA 2009 of a bronze medal and since than I am fully behind him, especially when he skates like today. And he is a nice young man, not a cocky one like Patrick
    Glad someone has sense. He is very humble, he said he thought he would be 3rd, that two of the competitors at this competitions were really strong, and that he was surprised to have win. He's a classy guy, and he's reinvented himself. You've got to give credit where credit is due, I don't care if he's rebuilding his reputation through skating Lysacek-esque programs, it's working and he's doing a good job. He also gives so much credit to his coach and his new training regimen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4jg-smAaws
    How can you not like this guy?
    Last edited by silverlake22; 11-20-2010 at 05:24 PM.

  10. #175
    Figure Skating Fan Hikaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skate95 View Post
    81 points in components....... With 3 falls....... What a shame
    Exactly what I thought! It's amazing that his FS got such a high score with 3 falls. Javi scored somewhere about that in SC with a clean program. Makes me put this into perspective, doesn't it?

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikaru View Post
    Exactly what I thought! It's amazing that his FS got such a high score with 3 falls. Javi scored somewhere about that in SC with a clean program. Makes me put this into perspective, doesn't it?
    But I saw Javier's program at Skate Canada...while he got the job done with jumps, he was really quite slow in-between, and almost crawling by the end....that doesn't always come through on the screen.....

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Glad someone has sense. He is very humble, he said he thought he would be 3rd, that two of the competitors at this competitions were really strong, and that he was surprised to have win. He's a classy guy, and he's reinvented himself. You've got to give credit where credit is due, I don't care if he's rebuilding his reputation through skating Lysacek-esque programs, it's working and he's doing a good job. He also gives so much credit to his coach and his new training regimen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4jg-smAaws
    How can you not like this guy?
    I don't think anyone deserves credit until he can be at the place where everyone knows he can be. For him that includes doing quads. Not even quads but quad triples too with 6 or 7 triples.

  13. #178
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    This thread is hilarious. I'd like to make a note of something, though.

    Jeremy Abbott's PCS for SP:7.75 7.36 7.79 7.82 7.82
    Jeremy Abbott's PCS for LP: 7.89 7.57 7.39 7.89 7.93

    So, how is it the Chan with three falls gets crucified but Abbott with two falls, two step-outs and one popped jump getting the exact same PCS in his two programs (remember, he was clean in the short) doesn't get a single peep in this thread. How is it that janetfan, pangandtongfan, musekskt8r can go into childish hysterics and venemous sarcasm about Chan without mentioning that other skaters benefit from this structure in COP too?

    If missed this discussion, I genuinely apologize (Also, post a link). I'm disappointed that a four fall Chan can win, truly I am. I'm glad he didn't win (I genuinely would fear for his safety at this point, given the mindless hysteria), and I'm glad that Verner can deliver two consistent performances. I'm growing to love both of Abbott's programs in a way I'm not with Chan's, and I think Chan is by far the more interesting skater. But the level of vitrol here is truly astonishing and it's really frustrating me in terms of actually having debates about what the sport can do to improve. You get the feeling if these guys saw Chan on the street, they'd give him a wedgie or something such is the level of discourse.

    gmyers, for what it's worth, I don't think that Verner's gonna get rid of the quad from his repetoire. Remember, he elected to skip Worlds because he had come to the conclusion that after Skate America, GPF, Nationals, Euros and the Olympics - something was REALLY wrong and he didn't know what. That led to a completely revamped training regime, changing coachs, arenas and countries. I agree with you - winning the way he did doesn't really appeal to me. It was clean and two clean performances for Verner is something to remember, but he won over 4 falls and a COP rule and two falls. I would love to see the Verner of the 2007 Worlds come back, but I think his choice to change everything about how he train means that he's gonna play it safe for a while to see what works, and I think that's the right maneuver. Intriguingly, his two performances (and hopefully the GPF) would go a long way to him reasserting his status as the top European skater this season, and given that this season we wondered if he'd be the top CZECH skater, that's an achievement for sure.

    I'd also like to thank Verner and Chan for making it just a teensy bit harder for Joubert to make it to the GPF. I thought when Abbott faltered that Joubert would be in for sure (presuming a Chan-Verner-Abbott podium means that he could leapfrog over both Verner and Abbott with a 1st place TEB finish. Now that's not possible)

  14. #179
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Awww, a congratulatory kiss from Nathalie Pechalat to Tomas. They're so cute together! Tomas is such a lovable skater, great guy, great programs, great talent! I'm pulling for him to win his 2nd European championship and I'd love to see him win a medal at Worlds too. Best of luck at the GPF; hope he medals there!

    Jeremy is so heartbreaking when he doesn't skate up to his potential. He has all the gifts it takes to be World and Olympic champion. His LP this season is filled with so many treasures, the brilliant transitions, choreography, and musical interpretation he is capable of achieving is so beautiful to see. Unfortunately, it destroys him when he misses so many technical elements. Hopefully, he can get his boot problems resolved and meet the moment at Nationals to qualify for Worlds and finally win that elusive World medal too. I also hope he makes the GPF!

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I really have to disagree here with you about Tomas. Tomas is a skater who was having major consistency issues, and I think it was smart of his coach to decide to dial back on the difficulty, and have Tomas focus on clean programs right now. Once Tomas gets is confidence back, I don't see why they wouldn't add back the quad, given how many points you can get for a quad fall etc, if the quad is going well in practice. Its a good idea though right now I think to first focus on having Tomas land all of the other triples cleanly. I think too in the eyes of the judges, Tomas needed to show he could start skating consistently.

    Tomas is skating better than he's skated in a long time, and I think its a great thing.

    My thing is that clean quads should be rewarded handsomely in this system, but no skater should be encouraged to go for a jump/element they can't do consistently well in practice.
    But I saw that interview he did and he said he does quads in practice and has not lost them. I don't see why if he is doing full run throughs of his programs he would not be doing any quads in those full run throughs. Lysacek said the same thing though. I was a fan of Tomas Verner not so much of Tomas Lysacek.

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