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Thread: Comparing the Grand Prix with the Worlds

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Comparing the Grand Prix with the Worlds

    I'm all for the SPORT and I happen to ignore Galas and Holiday shows.

    I find the GPs more interesting than a Worlds although I do know the difference in their values.

    The GPs are like real competitions where the players show their stuff more than once for a medal and the lucky ones get a final chance of becoming la creme de la creme in the Final. It's like so many other Sports. (One lucky win at an event does not say much about the winner except for that day/night.)

    There is enough information based on medals won at GP events and Worlds. (I would leve out B comps, 4 seasons, and Euros) to name the Players of the Year with a trophy. NO?

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I like the Grand Prix, too.

    As far as the Players of the Year Trophy (plus the $50,000 prize that goes along with it), I think the reason they include B events is to encourage the top skaters to participate in them.

    (By the way, the current leader for the men is Artur Gachinsky. He is ahead of Takahashi (#2) and Chan (#3) because he did a B event earlier in the season.)

  3. #3
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    I guess you could say Worlds has a bit of that weaning out too because of the nationals, although with the quotas for each country, it doesn't mean the best skaters in the world get to go.

    But I know what you mean with the GP. I like the GP series and it's fun to envision a similar competition in the lead up to worlds.

    But one problem with the GP is that it's that so much depends on which competition you get, no? Some are more competitive than others. As you say - one lucky win doesn't mean all that much. But it does help you get to the final. Another great skater might not make it because he/she faced tougher competition at their event.

    I can't think of a perfect system. The soccer World Cup (hardly a scandal-free event but just to throw an idea out there) tries to address the issue by not having the best teams face each othe right way. So that, you know, you don't have North Korea vs. Bahrain in the final because Italy, Brazil, Germany and Spain eliminated each other in the first two rounds. It still gives the lesser teams a chance to surprise and get further along than expected.

    The national federation maybe try to protect their skaters in the GP by not sending their best to the same event, but it's not the same thing.

    I don't blame you for ignoring the Galas and the shows because the best figure skating is almost always seen at competition, especially nowadays. I feel that for that reason, figure skating is under-developped as an art form, which is too bad, but it makes up for it by being one of the more exciting Olympic events

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    I like the GP too - since I am a skating fan.

    I see it as something similar to the regular season in team sports.
    Get out, play/perform and use it to prepare yourself for the playoffs = Nationals.

    Those who get through the "playoff" round of Natls then get to compete at the ultimate event of the season which is the World Championship.

    Fans may prefer the GP over Natls or the WC.
    Somehow I feel Sasha would gladly trade her GPF title - along with every GP medal she ever won for a World Championship Gold medal and the prestige of that title.

  5. #5
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    But one problem with the GP is that it's that so much depends on which competition you get, no? Some are more competitive than others. As you say - one lucky win doesn't mean all that much. But it does help you get to the final. Another great skater might not make it because he/she faced tougher competition at their event...

    I can't think of a perfect system. The soccer World Cup (hardly a scandal-free event but just to throw an idea out there) tries to address the issue by not having the best teams face each othe right way. So that, you know, you don't have North Korea vs. Bahrain in the final because Italy, Brazil, Germany and Spain eliminated each other in the first two rounds...
    The way the Grand Prix events are seeded, I think they are trying to have the best of both systems. On the one hand, the ISU wants to make sure that each event has some top flight skaters in order to draw an audience. On the other hand, they don't want the top seeds to knock each other out of the finals.

    The ISU's solution was to have each event feature one and only one of the top three at the previous year's Worlds, and one and only one of 4th through 6th. This year it didn't work out because many of the top people from Worlds and the OIlympics are not participating. That gives the North Koreas and the Barains a chance.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Still it can be worked out to have a series of events to Name the Skater of the Season. There will only be one, and the trophy confirms that. The others will have their monetary awards. I don't see why we have to wait for Sports Illustrated to do what can be done by skating.

    We could also think of Tennis which seeds the top Players with the lowest Players in the early rounds guaranteeing top Players in their quarters, semis and finals for drawing an audience.

    Ah but I think Figure Skating past on so much in the Sport so that the ladies that lunch can meet and watch the artistry. There's money in that.

  7. #7
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The way the Grand Prix events are seeded, I think they are trying to have the best of both systems. On the one hand, the ISU wants to make sure that each event has some top flight skaters in order to draw an audience. On the other hand, they don't want the top seeds to knock each other out of the finals.

    The ISU's solution was to have each event feature one and only one of the top three at the previous year's Worlds, and one and only one of 4th through 6th. This year it didn't work out because many of the top people from Worlds and the OIlympics are not participating. That gives the North Koreas and the Barains a chance.
    Lol! Thanks, I admit I didn't know that.

    I suppose it usually works out. Last year, only Mao was left out of the final of the top Olympic medal favorites and that was because of her own faulty performances.

    OTH, it is nice to have an event like worlds where more of the best get to show up at the same time. Mirai and Rachael weren't even at the GP final and it turns out they were good enough for 4th and 7th in the world at the Olympics. And Laura was bronze at worlds, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    I can't think of a perfect system. The soccer World Cup (hardly a scandal-free event but just to throw an idea out there) tries to address the issue by not having the best teams face each othe right way. So that, you know, you don't have North Korea vs. Bahrain in the final because Italy, Brazil, Germany and Spain eliminated each other in the first two rounds. It still gives the lesser teams a chance to surprise and get further along than expected.
    Eh? Don't they have a "group of dead" in almost every World Cup? Like #1, #3, #4, and North Korea in one group and only two make it out alive. There are many instances where Spain and Italy got eliminated in the second round.

  9. #9
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Eh? Don't they have a "group of dead" in almost every World Cup? Like #1, #3, #4, and North Korea in one group and only two make it out alive. There are many instances where Spain and Italy got eliminated in the second round.
    Obviously. Like I said I can't think of a perfect system.

    I'd say over this summer, though, the best teams got near the end. France and Italy played horribly so they deserved to be out early. I guess many were grumpy that Brazil and the Netherlands had to face off so only one could make it to the final but what-ev. Like I said no perfect system and I'm not sure this is worth arguing about.

    Besides, Mathman already pointed out to me that the GP series does something similar as what I was suggesting so it's moot.

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