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Thread: Ladies - Free Skate - 11/27

  1. #181
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think that most people thought Mirai should have won big. Mirai's mistakes (except for the bad spin) were things like edge calls and under-rotations that the average viewer can't see. Whereas both Alissa and Kira had bad falls and obvious botched jumps.
    After Mirai's botched spin, which was just weird and very visible, she seemed visibly upset and it took away from the performance. And edge calls and URs... well, I'm not suprised she didn't get a very high score. Unlike others, I think I really like this choreography but it's hard to know because Mirai has yet to sell it like we know she can. I wish she would go back to her other geisha costume. It looked so cute on her.

    I have yet to see Kiira's LP or Alissa's LP so I can't really jump into the bickering like I'm dying to do. Anyone know of any clips?

    But.

    Congratulations to Kiira for her gold! Too bad she didn't do with a perfect program but still. Is this her first international senior competition win? I did watch her SP and I think she is a wonderfully expressive and lyrical skater and there something to be said for selling your programs, which Mirai didn't do.

    Congratulations to Mirai for her first senior competition medal. (Honestly, I can't believe I just typed that. It seems so bizarre that Mirai hadn't medaled before this.)

    I give Mirai credit for landing all her jumps after her botched spin - when it seemed like she was just going lose mojo. Here is what I think: Mirai clearly is behind on training and isn't back up speed. But I see no reason to believe she can't work out her speed/spin kinks before nationals. Fingers crossed anyway. On the other hand, she stayed on her feet, which I think speaks to her strength and Frank's training style. I'm optimistic. (I hope Frank isn't TOO hard on her after this competition.)

    Congratulations to Alissa for making it to finals!! It's so great to see because she stayed in the game this season to prove (to herself) that she can't be counted out and she is doing that. I sincerely hope she does well at finals. She so needs it.

    It's a bummer that she still hasn't had a clean competition. But I am just so amused at all the people who are surprised to see both Mirai and Alissa on this podium. What-ever. With Mao out of the picture, Mirai and Alissa totally had in them to medal and even win.

    I think it's a bit disappointing that one of them couldn't pull off a win in this field but you know, not everyone can be Kim Yuna or Michelle Kwan, and dominate competition after competition. I love watching both of them and I'm happy for them and their medals.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think that most people thought Mirai should have won big. Mirai's mistakes (except for the bad spin) were things like edge calls and under-rotations that the average viewer can't see. Whereas both Alissa and Kira had bad falls and obvious botched jumps.
    Yeah, this is what bothers me, too. The casual baseball fan can tell when someone hits a home run. The casual track and field or horse-racing fan can certainly figure out the winner. While I understand that skating must quantify things, if it's done too arcanely, it will attract only the precise souls on here who are capable of analyzing jump layouts and protocols, or the romantics like me who come for the music and the dance. (I recognize that many skating fans combine both traits!) It will not attract new fans who look can't understand why edge calls sink you lower than falls. Thank goodness for YouTube, because TV will not be carrying more skating programs any time soon.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    The costumes, the makeup, the music, the style, and the cuteness, are all hidden factors in the PC.
    Hidden? I thought they were pretty much in your face! Some skaters seem to consider them the entire PC! And they become even more extravagant when not constrained by competition rules, like when on a reality show

    Anyway, the Skating Skills and Transitions are actually technical parts of a program, while the other 3 PC constitute Artistry. However, there is no Tech Panel on the 2 technical skill components and no levels are assigned. A few skaters like Chan, Takahashi and Kozuka are doing triple and quad jump equivalence while others do what equal to single and double jumps. They would fall all over the rink if required or made to do what the top PCS earners do. We are simply spared such spectacles because they just do what they can, often trying to camouflage their lack of skills with busy arm movements, in place gyrating, and, of course, with costume, makeup, cuteness, hotness, etc.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Yeah, this is what bothers me, too. The casual baseball fan can tell when someone hits a home run. The casual track and field or horse-racing fan can certainly figure out the winner. While I understand that skating must quantify things, if it's done too arcanely, it will attract only the precise souls on here who are capable of analyzing jump layouts and protocols, or the romantics like me who come for the music and the dance. (I recognize that many skating fans combine both traits!) It will not attract new fans who look can't understand why edge calls sink you lower than falls. Thank goodness for YouTube, because TV will not be carrying more skating programs any time soon.
    Really? Given that some victories are decided by thousandths of a second or disqualifications for barely visible touches to the lines, you think that casual fans can see that in real time? Not everyone is Bob Beamon or Usain Bolt. I certainly agree with the general argument, but how many sports have used highly technical presentations to demonstrate certain facts about the sport (tennis: is the ball in/out/on the line, for example).

  5. #185
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I guess the answer is no, it's too much to ask. Yet, the same crowd is not even remotely outraged Alissa made it to the podium with merely 3 triples.
    I dont know which crowd your are referring to, but as much as I like Alissa it bothered me that she made the podium with that performance.

    I am sure that I am in the minority here but I thought that Cynthia deserved the Bronze.

  6. #186
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Really? Given that some victories are decided by thousandths of a second or disqualifications for barely visible touches to the lines, you think that casual fans can see that in real time? Not everyone is Bob Beamon or Usain Bolt. I certainly agree with the general argument, but how many sports have used highly technical presentations to demonstrate certain facts about the sport (tennis: is the ball in/out/on the line, for example).
    Well, you're right that sometimes things are hard to see in other sports and referees provoke the ire of fans by making bad calls. Very good point. There are certainly some people who think the World Cup is totally rigged and political. I am not such a conspiracy theorist but referees sometimes make obvious mistakes.

    Still, the bottom line is that in racing, whoever makes it to the finish line first wins. And even if it takes a stop watch to determine it, fans accept that basic premise and don't spend a lot of time arguing about who had the most beautiful strides or the best arms or whatever.
    In figure skating, there is a lot of bickering among fans _ and I imagine insiders _ over what SHOULD be most valued. There is just no arguing that what is most valued in racing is whoever gets there first and what is most valued in soccer is whoever scores the most goals. I think Olympia's point is fair but OTH, it is absolutely impossible for figure skating to ever be a straightforward as most other sports.

  7. #187
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    Exactly.

  8. #188
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Korpi's LP is the best female program of the year so far. Which doesn't say much, all considered, but still. The music cut is rather perfect. It could be a masterful program with some alterations.

    She really needs to work on finishing in time with the music, though. She has yet to end her combination spin in time to get to the final pose with the end of the music.
    Last edited by Blades of Passion; 11-27-2010 at 11:18 PM.

  9. #189
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    I think it was Michelle Kwan who said words to the effect that you give nothing to the judges to take away from you. You give them no option but to put you in first. Everybody gave something to the judges today, and if any of these ladies wanted a clear win, they had to skate much better than they did.

    That said, I'm sure Kiira is thrilled with the win; Mirai is thrilled with finally winning a medal at the Grand Prix, and Alissa is thrilled to be going to the GPF.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Congratulations to Kiira for her gold! Too bad she didn't do with a perfect program but still. Is this her first international senior competition win? I did watch her SP and I think she is a wonderfully expressive and lyrical skater and there something to be said for selling your programs, which Mirai didn't do.
    She won the Finlandia Trophy some years ago.

    I am so happy for Kiira! She is the first Finnish lady to win a GP. I think that this off-season she has made some really big improvements to her skating. She's noticeably smoother and her skating skills are really improved. She's also expressing more and connecting more to the music. She has a striking and elegant presence on the ice. I think all the comments about getting beauty points for PCS really detract from her excellent abilities and the very real improvements she has made to her skating.

    Anyway, I am so glad for Mirai for her medal and for a huge improvement over COC. I expect to see even more improvements at the US Nationals.

    Happy that Alissa gets to go to the GPF BTW - I think she can medal if she skates well.

    Overall, 3 of my favorite ladies currently competing, so I can't complain about the podium.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    1. No we won't, Joesitz.

    2. In this case, I like extraneous facts that together have a kind of harmony. For example, I like that Aliona and Robin have both have three-syllable last names beginning with "S". I admire the seemingly diverse group of skaters that France has.

    3. I can definitely understand why people don't get Joannie, janetfan. I think it's the difference between natural vs earned/developed talent. But I was more playing on the consistency of the cries that "Mirai should've won" (US Nationals last season, robbed of the bronze cries at Olympics). I fully expect at next year's Nationals, when it's Czisny has the top spot and it's between Flatt and Nagasu to hear those exact same cries. Whatever "it" is, Mirai clearly has it for a lot of people.
    I'm sorry but i don't expect Czisny to be on the top spot come Nationals. As we saw today Alissa can come apart rather quickly and a clean Mirai will beat her almost everytime. Plus Flatt as much as she bores me is like a machine when it comes to landing her jumps. I wish Mirai was in the GPF instead of Czisny because i think she would be more of a threat. And do you really want to depend on Alissa at Worlds to try to get our three spots back again?

  12. #192
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    Don't be sorry. Just change your belief!

    More seriously, I've decided that Czisny is gonna be on the world podium this year and I'm devoting much of my imaginary will power to ensuring this is so.

    ... that was more seriously?

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I'm sorry but i don't expect Czisny to be on the top spot come Nationals. As we saw today Alissa can come apart rather quickly and a clean Mirai will beat her almost everytime. Plus Flatt as much as she bores me is like a machine when it comes to landing her jumps. I wish Mirai was in the GPF instead of Czisny because i think she would be more of a threat. And do you really want to depend on Alissa at Worlds to try to get our three spots back again?

    Lol! Absolutely not.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sackie View Post
    Mirai will go into first on the PCS mark! Now I see why Cynthia was held down in PCS marks. Otherwise she would have been ahead of the 2 Americans and that would be a no no!
    (Sigh!) Cynthia was held down on the PCS because she was slow and lackluster and took forever to set up each jump. She also didn't skate that well. The judges will continue to hold her scores down as long as she skates inconsistently. She had a very easy program---she fell on the lone 3Z and the other jumps were 3T, 3S and 2A. The better Junior skaters have a tougher layout than that.

  15. #195
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    I don't think Korpi is a female Chan, but I do think she was quite generously scored in this competition, while other were scored more stingily. What will happen when Lepisto comes back? Will they both be on the World podium with watered-down programs? Oy!

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