The 3 Jump Combo -

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 27, 2010

Who really does it well?

What I would like to see, and I do not see is the Flow/speed into, throughout, and landing of the combo.

Especially the Landing.

I can not exemplify anyone who has the sensation that it once had. Can you.

Mathman · Nov 27, 2010

Great question! The ladies especially seem to come to a complete stop on the third jump of a 3Something / 2Lo / 2T.

The ISU changed the rules this year to allow combos like 3Something / half loop / 3F, or 3-something / half loop / 3Salchow. Has anyone tried it yet?

burntBREAD · Nov 27, 2010

Mathman said:
Great question! The ladies especially seem to come to a complete stop on the third jump of a 3Something / 2Lo / 2T.

The ISU changed the rules this year to allow combos like 3Something / half loop / 3F, or 3-something / half loop / 3Salchow. Has anyone tried it yet?

Joannie's 3T 1/2Lo 3S is always very nice. Alena Leonova has done it this season as well.

Blades of Passion · Nov 27, 2010

Mathman said:
The ISU changed the rules this year to allow combos like 3Something / half loop / 3F, or 3-something / half loop / 3Salchow. Has anyone tried it yet?

Patrick Chan is attempting a 3Lutz+half loop+3Sal. He hasn't managed to do it in competition thus far.

larryb · Nov 27, 2010

The three jump combo

Actually, when a half loop is inserted between two jumps, it is referred to as a sequence. It gets a lower base value than a true combination. If memory serves me correctly, it is worth 70 percent of the base value of a combination.

Violet Bliss · Nov 27, 2010

larryb said:
Actually, when a half loop is inserted between two jumps, it is referred to as a sequence. It gets a lower base value than a true combination. If memory serves me correctly, it is worth 70 percent of the base value of a combination.

IIRC, the half loop between jumps is now considered a single loop and the previous sequence is now a combo. Patrick Chan has changed his 3-2-2 into a 3-1-3 because it's worth more. His first attempt was a 3-1-2 though, with the 3-1-3 in mind for later when the program matures.

larryb · Nov 27, 2010

Thank you for your correction. Learned something new today, and that's always a good thing!

dorispulaski · Nov 27, 2010

The best 3 jump combo lately that I have seen was Kevin van der Perrens 4/3/3 at Worlds 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flWhZrA7NJM

His 3/3/3 in the old days had a bit better flow though.

Plush's 4/3/3/ and 4/3/2 were often special.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 27, 2010

dorispulaski said:
The best 3 jump combo lately that I have seen was Kevin van der Perrens 4/3/3 at Worlds 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flWhZrA7NJM

His 3/3/3 in the old days had a bit better flow though.

Plush's 4/3/3/ and 4/3/2 were often special.

That was incredible with vdPerren, but no one thought much of it in the Blogs. He's not a universal favorite.
I did see Plush 3x3x3 way back in 2004 Worlds. The audience went wild. It didn't have the last one flow greatly but it did not curl

on the half loop bit. It is indeed easier than a loop. It would be interesting if a skater could do a 3z x 1-1/2 half loop x 3sal.

Blades of Passion · Nov 27, 2010

I don't like the half-loop counting as part of the jump combination. xxx-half loop-3Sal or xxx-half loop-3Flip should simply be treated as a 2-jump combination (but not allowed in the SP). If you underrotate the half loop between the jumps then it should be called as a sequence.

In terms of actual 3-jump combinations, it should be a rule that the last jump MUST be a Loop. It's so completely useless when a skater tacks on an additional toeloop to the end of a combination. And, as cute as Van Der Perren's 4Toe-3Toe-3Toe was, it would have served the program better to do a 4Toe-3Toe-2Loop (or 3Loop if he is feeling especially good) and then save the extra 3Toe for another combination later in the program.

silverlake22 · Nov 27, 2010

Adelina Sotnikova landed a huge 2a-3lo-2lo combo in her FS at a Cup of Russia event a couple weeks ago, it was very well done and impressive

.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 27, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
And, as cute as Van Der Perren's 4Toe-3Toe-3Toe was, it would have served the program better to do a 4Toe-3Toe-2Loop (or 3Loop if he is feeling especially good) and then save the extra 3Toe for another combination later in the program.

That's what I meant about he has no universal fans. Can anyone say their best fan skater did a 4x3x3, and it was cute?

Tonichelle · Nov 27, 2010

everything Kevin does is cute, because he's dreamy :love:

Layfan · Nov 27, 2010

That worlds skate was great to see. And he did look rather cute looking so happy at the end of that program. :yes:

I can't say there was great flow at the end of his last triple - which seems to be Joe's original point - but geez, obviously, I'm hugely impressed.

But to me he'll always be the guy who wore the trick-or-treating costume at the Olympics.

dorispulaski · Nov 27, 2010

I dunno, when somebody does something technically impressive (like a 4t3t3t), I think the audience, including blogsters, ought to :clap:

, not try to minimize the impressiveness by saying, patronizingly, it was cute, or worse, that it was a stupid thing to do because it didn't maximize his COP points. Or that it would be better done at the end of the program for the bonus (where, of course, no one I know of has ever had the energy to complete such a thing).

I'm tired of the technically gifted not being given credit for the things they do well while being endlessly slagged for the things they do not do well . Those things are true, and there are the PCS where they should be appropriately downgraded. Just don't say that something that's eyebrow lifting amazing is somehow crappy.

Another set of combination jumps that always made me smile is at the end of a program http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdHorxKW-mw#t=3m50s
2A a number of hops and jumps into a 3T into a flying camel.

Violet Bliss · Nov 28, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
I don't like the half-loop counting as part of the jump combination. xxx-half loop-3Sal or xxx-half loop-3Flip should simply be treated as a 2-jump combination (but not allowed in the SP). If you underrotate the half loop between the jumps then it should be called as a sequence.

In terms of actual 3-jump combinations, it should be a rule that the last jump MUST be a Loop. It's so completely useless when a skater tacks on an additional toeloop to the end of a combination. And, as cute as Van Der Perren's 4Toe-3Toe-3Toe was, it would have served the program better to do a 4Toe-3Toe-2Loop (or 3Loop if he is feeling especially good) and then save the extra 3Toe for another combination later in the program.

I guess the same criticism would still apply if someone did a 4A-3T-3T, right? Why aren't those skaters brilliant enough to land all the quads and quad combos there are and also manage to maximize points in every possible way?

Really, a 4A-4T-3L should be done late in the program to get the 10% bonus too. After all, the higher the base points, with +3 GOE added, the higher the value of the 10%bonus. I'm sure you can design a program worth over 300 points. If only the skaters are as smart as you! Instead some of them go for cute! :rolleye:

let`s talk · Nov 28, 2010

dorispulaski said:
Plush's 4/3/3/ and 4/3/2 were often special.

Ah... if we ever see something like that again....

golden age gone with the wind:disapp:

Blades of Passion · Nov 28, 2010

SkateFiguring said:
I guess the same criticism would still apply if someone did a 4A-3T-3T, right? Why aren't those skaters brilliant enough to land all the quads and quad combos there are and also manage to maximize points in every possible way? Really, a 4A-4T-3L should be done late in the program to get the 10% bonus too. After all, the higher the base points, with +3 GOE added, the higher the value of the 10%bonus. I'm sure you can design a program worth over 300 points. If only the skaters are as smart as you! Instead some of them go for cute!

I don't think you understood my point.

The point being that doing a Toeloop as the 3rd part of a 3-jump combination simply doesn't look good. Especially if the 2nd jump of that combination was also a Toeloop. Nobody ever attempted to do a xxxx-3Toe-3Toe (or xxxx-2Toe-2Toe) combination in competition before CoP came about because such a combination is repetitive and doesn't really add anything to the program. Plushenko pioneered the 4Toe-3Toe-2Loop and there's a reason why he did that instead of a 4Toe-3Toe-2Toe: tacking a toeloop onto the end is simply repetitive and not worthwhile. Doing a 2Loop, however, looks special. It creates an extra tempo and an additional look for the combination.

As for Van Der Perren's program, it WAS pointless to do that move even in terms of CoP because everyone has to do the full amount of combination jumps anyway if they want to receive the most points. If Van Der Perren uses up both 3T like that, it means he has to tack a 2T (or 2Loop) onto a jump later in the program to use all of the combination slots. If he doesn't tack on the 2T, he is losing points. Thus, given that he MUST do the specified number of combinations, it is better both choreographically AND in terms of the points he would earn for him to do a 4Toe-3Toe-2Loop and then an xxxx-3Toe later in the program, rather than a 4Toe-3Toe-3Toe and then an xxxx-2T later on.

seniorita · Nov 28, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
Plushenko pioneered the 4Toe-3Toe-2Loop and there's a reason why he did that instead of a 4Toe-3Toe-2Toe: tacking a toeloop onto the end is simply repetitive and not worthwhile. Doing a 2Loop, however, looks special. It creates an extra tempo and an additional look for the combination.

He did a great 4toe-3loop in Euros 2006 sp practice but in competition he couldnt.He was a loop freak, why this wouldnt be allowed in competition? :biggrin:

(at 6min 9sec)

ayayukiituka · Nov 28, 2010

My favorite 3-jump combination from last season is Kanako's 3S-2Lo-2Lo. Clearly,3Lo's not her best jump rather than weak one. But her 2Lo is too good. Nice hight,flow out and nice smile

The 3 Jump Combo -

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

burntBREAD

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

larryb

Violet Bliss

larryb

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Joesitz (RIP)

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

silverlake22

Joesitz (RIP)

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Layfan

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Violet Bliss

let`s talk

Match Penalty

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

seniorita

ayayukiituka

Similar threads

Connect with us