The Finalists and the substitutes - MEN | Page 3 | Golden Skate

The Finalists and the substitutes - MEN

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
^^^^^
All Falls are ugly. It is very observable that they stop the Flow of the Program. No? The speed in which they recover should not negate a sound thrashing for Falling. The 2002, 06 and 10 skaters Oly champions did not Fall at their hora de verdad. That's what sport is all about and not about pampering some of its contestants.

I've sat through many LIVE competitions and the view is not clear all the time for URs. Only the Tech Asst has the slomo repeat if he didn't get a clear view. I would like the SloMo to be shown on the Jumbothon as it is in other Sports. The public has a right to know. I'm not against the tech panel decision, I just want to see an error clearly as they do. Also I am fully aware of human error be it inadvertently or deliberate.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Joe, I too would like to see the exactly SLOMO the tech panel is reviewing on the Jumbotron, while they are reviewing it.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I, too, appreciate very much of posters like SkateFiguring and gkelly who have deep knowledge and great patience to analyse and explain everything. It helped me to appreciate more to the skaters like Patrick Chan, and helped me to see things beyond the obvious. Thank you!

Can't wait to see the skaters at GPF!
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Joesitz;533863I said:
would like the SloMo to be shown on the Jumbothon as it is in other Sports. The public has a right to know. I'm not against the tech panel decision, I just want to see an error clearly as they do. Also I am fully aware of human error be it inadvertently or deliberate.

In every National championship I've been to they HAVE reviewed several elements on the jumbotron. This is teh same footage that the broadcasting team is also reviewing for the TV viewers. This is the SAME WAY they do it in "other sports".
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
However, it is my understanding that the technical panel uses a different camera angle than what the TV cameras/Jumbotron in the arena show.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
^^^
We'll disagree on that. OK? If a ball it hit close to the boundary line it is always displayed in Tennis by slomo at the Court and in the living rooms. The Nationals are run by a group of Americans - not so at international events.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
:eek::

There are quite a few very knowledgeable and principled posters here I appreciate so much for their sharing and sometimes their humility, courage, and humour. I thought I could play a supporting role when arguments get heated and irrationality overwhelms reasons. They probably don't need me but I sort of like joining a losing cause. :)

herios, I've been impressed with Kozuka from the first time I saw him a couple of years back. He's one of the few with the complete package including amazing skating skills. Somehow he hasn't broken through to the top yet, which might happen this season. I believe at the top level of any sport, it's all about the state of the mind. (Exhibit A: Tiger Woods. Exhibit B: Nobu Oda at last Worlds. And then we have the perpetual headcases, who are the saddest and most frustrating.) Maybe Kozuka is breaking through mentally now. My puzzlement about his not placing higher before was sort of explained by some people who have watched him live. According to them, he is opposite of Chan in that he "skates small" and comes across better on TV than live. This GPF should be a real test and a real opportunity for him.

I look at this as a 4 way race on slippery ice. Takahashi has not done so well this season even though he won both GPs. He is a rock star on ice and such a performer that he can always count on his PCS. Oda has got it all too, but just does not have a perfect non-cute program for him yet. Then there is Chan who would be unbeatable with the combination of high technical elements and skating skills, but he needs to skate clean or almost clean for this competition, and for himself, so it would not become too difficult to keep his mental strength amidist all the negativity.

I miss Abbott who really should be there.

I'm all excited for this event. May the best man win.

So am I. It is my favorite discipline, as I think in men there is depth like in none of the other 3 at the moment. Abbott was a downer for me too, he is one of my favorites, you can see whow much I like my "artistical"skaters.
About Kozuka skating small, well, he doesn't have the same impact as Patrick does, for sure, saw them live at 4CC in Vancouver and Patrick took my breath away, but he is not always that good either, I saw him live in Kitchener at SC and he was really struggling and he could not even compare cu Takahashi or Abbott there.
But still Kozuka I found held down somewhat, without a reason. At LA worlds I was very upset when I saw him scoring equally with Contesti on SS. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
Yes, Contesti had a cheesy program and sold it well, give him good marks for PE and IN, but SS??? C'mon!
I don't even want to remember much of that event, there was another highway robbery there, when Joubert ended up 3rd after falling all over the place, ahead of Verner, based on solely his SP. Tomas should have been on the podium there!.
Taka needs to get some more lessons how to sell his programs, look into the audience more often, make eye contact and have programs which require more interpretation. He keeps picking music which is very challenging technically but doesn't give him much to work with in terms of performance. Pick some Broadway music for a change and take some dance lessons. Kurt Browning, is very high on Taka, he likes his "smoothness" and says once he will learn how to sell his programs he will be very tough to beat.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I'm with you herios on many points there.

I've heard the same comments about Kozuka's performance often. The guy is shy? I try to imagine the kind of nerve to perform all alone in a big ice rink with thousands of pairs of eyes on you, knowing millions more are watching all over the world in a major competition and knowing what you're going to do involves very probable risk of falling on your butt. That's one of the many reasons I find figure skating so special and skaters admirable.

I find this season's PCSs for Kozuka and his competitors:

.....................COC............................TEB.........

Kozuka.....36.10 + 74.70...............37.29 + 80.80
Amodio....(32.83 + 70.02)..............36.10 + 76.50
Joubert.....37.01 + 72.50...............36.11 + 00.00
Verner......36.55 + 75.56...............(37.15 + 78.12)
Contesti....33.46 + 65.08...............(34.57 + 66.5)

Those in brackets are scores from non-direct competition with Koz. Contesti is not in the league. I'd say Taka is underscored PCS wise vs Verner while Joubert and Amodio are just overscored IMO.

Daisuke has the highest PCS with Patrick close behind. But Taka has now broken through the 80 marks to join them as the PCS elites. As PCS are more stable scores and good as indicators, right now it's Takahashi, Chan, and Kozuka as 1, 2, and 3 in winning probabilities, depending on TES/ jumps results at the competition. Koz and Chan have the softest knees, as do Takahashi and Oda, so they tend to have beautiful jumps and more able to save wonky ones, while "manly" jumpers like Joubert and KevinVDP muscle through their jumps as well as transitions.

Men's field are indeed deep and exciting right now while the Ladies are unpredictible for the opposite reasons. Their results depend mainly on which twins show up on the day.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I'm with you herios on many points there.

I've heard the same comments about Kozuka's performance often. The guy is shy? I try to imagine the kind of nerve to perform all alone in a big ice rink with thousands of pairs of eyes on you, knowing millions more are watching all over the world in a major competition and knowing what you're going to do involves very probable risk of falling on your butt. That's one of the many reasons I find figure skating so special and skaters admirable.

I find this season's PCSs for Kozuka and his competitors:

.....................COC............................TEB.........

Kozuka.....36.10 + 74.70...............37.29 + 80.80
Amodio....(32.83 + 70.02)..............36.10 + 76.50
Joubert.....37.01 + 72.50...............36.11 + 00.00
Verner......36.55 + 75.56...............(37.15 + 78.12)
Contesti....33.46 + 65.08...............(34.57 + 66.5)

Those in brackets are scores from non-direct competition with Koz. Contesti is not in the league. I'd say Taka is underscored PCS wise vs Verner while Joubert and Amodio are just overscored IMO.

Daisuke has the highest PCS with Patrick close behind. But Taka has now broken through the 80 marks to join them as the PCS elites. As PCS are more stable scores and good as indicators, right now it's Takahashi, Chan, and Kozuka as 1, 2, and 3 in winning probabilities, depending on TES/ jumps results at the competition. Koz and Chan have the softest knees, as do Takahashi and Oda, so they tend to have beautiful jumps and more able to save wonky ones, while "manly" jumpers like Joubert and KevinVDP muscle through their jumps as well as transitions.

Men's field are indeed deep and exciting right now while the Ladies are unpredictible for the opposite reasons. Their results depend mainly on which twins show up on the day.

Skatefiguring,

This sport is still very protocol bound, although COP made that less stonelike. Once the skaters get consistent in jumps, the second marks will follow up shortly.
Taka's started to get higher this year. The good news for him , so far is he is not falling in the second half of his programs, like he used to do. That means his stamina is better and he can push through cleanly, the big question mark is still his opening quad.
I checked out his conf, press following his LP at TEB and he said he realized Amodio skated very well, when he stepped onto the ice and he got a little nervous seeing the audience standing and cheering. but he kept his nerves under control, major:thumbsup:
And what I like a lot, when he is satisfied, he gives out a fist pump, in the end. (I do it too, in front of TV or screen:p)
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think the Order of Skate in the SP will contribute to the outcome and lead to the order of skate for the LP. I know, I know, I know the CoP says score what you see. But who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

I also feel the Roar of the Crowd may often influence the out come, but not as much as order of skate. The Roar of the Crowd is quite thrilling at LIVE comps.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
*confused* did I miss something? Is Abbott now in the GPF? John Coughlin just tweeted a good luck message to Jeremy... just curious?
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
It's possible that Tomas is withdrawing, not wanting to compete and lose to the Asians before Europeans.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
*confused* did I miss something? Is Abbott now in the GPF? John Coughlin just tweeted a good luck message to Jeremy... just curious?


I have no idea what they are talking about, just checked ISU site and the entries are the same and Jeremy is listed as the first substitute.

Tweet Coughlin and ask him if he issmoking something:rolleye:
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
:laugh: maybe it's finals week or something? (I know so little about Jeremy that I don't even know if he's taking classes)

You just made me all excited and then I jumped over there in a hurry to see who he is replacing and saw nothing, damn!;)
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
According to his FB page, he's leaving for SOI Mexico shortly. Oh, and judging the ice show try outs for DSC...
 
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