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Thread: article about Tanith and Ben career

  1. #1
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    article about Tanith and Ben career

    hello everyone

    here is an article about Tanith and Ben's career. Nice quots from Meryl and Charlie.

    http://figureskating.teamusa.org/new...ke-a-bow/39803
    “I think that Tanith and Ben still have a lot to give to ice dance and I think the professional world is a really great area for them to do it,” said ice dancer Meryl Davis, who trained alongside Belbin and Agosto for several years in Detroit.

    “They both have such strong personalities on and off the ice. Tanith is really outgoing, Ben is also very outgoing and very funny and I think they bring that to the ice and so while they were able to do the serious programs, they were also able to do the programs that required a little more energy and originality.”

    “He’s one of the greatest guys I’ve ever known – so funny and so nice,” White said. “I’m so thankful for having gotten to know him and compete against him and continue to be his friend because he is just one of the nicest guys and figure skating is really lucky to have him.”
    Growing up and looking up to them, it was amazing to watch them win the silver in 2006,” Davis said. “It was really exciting, I think not only for us, but for all up-and-coming American ice dance teams to know it was possible to make that podium and achieve that success.”

    “They gave us the confidence to be fearless and be able to compete and know that even though we’re American we still had a chance to medal,” added White.

    “You have to respect so much what they went through to get to that point – with a coaching change, changing up their skating style a little, Ben had been injured and they had a rough year before that,” White said.

    “But they were hungry and they both have very competitive spirits and they went out there and performed their hearts out. It was too bad that the judges weren’t able to recognize that.”

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post!
    Last edited by Mathman; 12-06-2010 at 09:30 PM.

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    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Love this article. Thanks!

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    So sad they never won a major title. They deserved it so much! They still had a great career though. It was sad to see them go out with 4th in Vancouver when they skated so well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    So sad they never won a major title. They deserved it so much! They still had a great career though. It was sad to see them go out with 4th in Vancouver when they skated so well.
    huh? Isn't US National Champion the most prestigious title? People say it is in another thread.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Not in ice dance it isn't I believe those folks were talking about the ladies title. And that was in the past, for sure. Maybe in the 1990's and early 2000's?

    Similarly back in the 1990's, Russian National Champion might have been the most prestigious title in ice dance and pairs. and in the late 1990's to mid 2000's in Men's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Not in ice dance it isn't I believe those folks were talking about the ladies title. And that was in the past, for sure. Maybe in the 1990's and early 2000's?

    Similarly back in the 1990's, Russian National Champion might have been the most prestigious title in ice dance and pairs. and in the late 1990's to mid 2000's in Men's.
    Their biggest chance was there in 2008, but Tanith's fall on that twizzle in the Argentine Tango of all places, took them out of the running. This way Del /Sch walk away with a lone Worrld gol (how satisfiying that must have been!) and B&A are left with 4 World medals and one Olympic silver. Not too shabby by any means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    huh? Isn't US National Champion the most prestigious title?
    Why yes, so it is.

    And here are two interesting factoids about U.SA. ice dance

    Belbin and Agosto tied the U.S. record with five consecutive U.S. titles. This record is held jointly by an odd number of people, 9. (Harold Hartshorne won from 1937 to 1941 with two different partners.)

    Naomi Lang (Lang and Tchernyshev, 5-time U.S. champs before B&A) is a member (on her father's side) of the Kanuk nation of Native Americans, The tribal headquarters is in the town of Yreka, California.

    For many years Yreka boasted a fine bakery, called the Yreka Bakery.(This palindrome is actually mentioned i one of Mark Twain's stories.) Later on someone bought the bakery and turned it into an art gallery. The new owner called it the Yrella Gallery. (True story. )
    Last edited by Mathman; 12-07-2010 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Not in ice dance it isn't I believe those folks were talking about the ladies title. And that was in the past, for sure. Maybe in the 1990's and early 2000's?

    Similarly back in the 1990's, Russian National Champion might have been the most prestigious title in ice dance and pairs. and in the late 1990's to mid 2000's in Men's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Why yes, so it is.

    And here are two interesting factoids about U.SA. ice dance

    Belbin and Agosto tied the U.S. record with five consecutive U.S. titles. This record is held jointly by 9 people. (Harold Hartshorne won from 1937 to 1941 with two different partners.)

    Naomi Lang (Lang and Tchernyshev, 5-time U.S. champs before B&A) is a member (on her father's side) of the Kanuk nation of Native Americans, The tribal headquarters is in the town of Yreka, California.

    For many years Yreka boasted a fine bakery, called the Yreka Bakery. Later on someone bought the bakery and turned it into an art gallery. The new owner called it the Yrella Gallery. (True story. )
    Thanks Doris and Mathman for the knowledge! I was trying to make fun. Now I'm taking it seriously.

    For a country, in any sports, the national competition's title indeed is the most prestigious title within a nation compared with regionals, sectionals, state's wide, college levels, etc.. But it doesn't hold much value in the eyes of other countries. I've realized that larger countries' titles are more important than smaller countries' titles. However, it is the world competition title which holds the most prestigious position in the general views around the world, not a specific country's title no matter how the people in that country are proud of their own titles.

    In fact, if (I don't know if it's true.)the Americans see their Nationals' title to be more important than the Worlds' title, it is strange and silly to anyone from other countries, because the general views in other countries (I assume it's all other countries.) are the Worlds is higher than the nation's.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Well, let's look at Jr. dance right now. Six of the teams at the JGPF are Russian teams. Only 3 of those teams can go to Jr. Worlds. It would be fair to say this year that winning Russian Nationals in Junior Dance is the most intense competition because you have more teams that are close to you chasing you than at Worlds

    It was like that in US ladies back in the day when Diane de Leeuw decided to skate for the Netherlands and Susanna Driano decided to skate for Italy because they were never going to get to Worlds starting from US Nationals, in their opinion.

    Hard to think of considering

    Dianne Margaret de Leeuw (born 19 November 1955) is a Dutch figure skater. She is the 1975 World champion, the 1976 European champion, and the 1976 Olympic silver medalist.
    and Susanna Driano was 3rd in 1978 in the World and 3rd in Europe in 1977. (Susanna tended to be inconsistent).

    Fast forward to the late 1980's and I've heard Kristi Yamaguchi's team thought she might be able to reach Worlds faster skating for Japan, but scheduling for the qualifying competitions and other things made it too difficult in real life. (Not to mention that I doubt she would have ever been Japanese champion, given that that was the Midori Ito era. I doubt that Kristi's ladylike little jumps would have impressed the Japanese judges by comparison.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-07-2010 at 03:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Well, let's look at Jr. dance right now. Six of the teams at the JGPF are Russian teams. Only 3 of those teams can go to Jr. Worlds. It would be fair to say this year that winning Russian Nationals in Junior Dance is the most intense competition because you have more teams that are close to you chasing you than at Worlds

    It was like that in US ladies back in the day when Diane de Leeuw decided to skate for the Netherlands and Susanna Driano decided to skate for Italy because they were never going to get to Worlds starting from US Nationals, in their opinion.

    Hard to think of considering



    and Susanna Driano was 3rd in 1978 in the World and 3rd in Europe in 1977. (Susanna tended to be inconsistent).

    Fast forward to the late 1980's and I've heard Kristi Yamaguchi's team thought she might be able to reach Worlds faster skating for Japan, but scheduling for the qualifying competitions and other things made it too difficult in real life. (Not to mention that I doubt she would have ever been Japanese champion, given that that was the Midori Ito era. I doubt that Kristi's ladylike little jumps would have impressed the Japanese judges by comparison.
    Always love to read your posts, Doris. I've learned a lot from them.

    But your example doesn't mean that JGPF title is more important and worthy than a Junior World title. No one in the world will care (well, a few fans maybe) a few years later that glorious JGPF title which has taken the champion the hardest fought to earn. What People will remember is who was the Junior World Champion in 2011. All the medias and including the skater themselves would be proudly put its title infront of their names wherever it's possible.

    It's true that the titles of different nations are not equal. Right now, a Japanese National Men's Champion's absolute technical and artistical level will be higher than, say French National's Men's Champion. It's true that a skater couldn't earn the title in one country, he/she might be able to earn it in another country. One country's title might be more important than another. But the most important one is the World title - the so called major international title (also includes European, 4CC, it might include GPF, but the world title is the highest one among those). Most people consider that only the Olympics title is more prestigious than a world title because it only gives out once every four years.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-07-2010 at 09:58 AM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Ahh--but prestige is an opinion, and therefore, in the eye of the beholder. And its usually the case that when, say, the Japanese Men's championship is more intense than Worlds, that the Japanese men's champion will also win Worlds.

    I have heard a few ladies' competitors from the US-centric eras claim they were more proud of their US championships than their World medals. If that's how they feel, I am more than willing to believe them on the subject.

    Of course, part of that was a general feeling that there was cheating in the figures section of Worlds. Certainly, scores were often very suspicious. There was the story of Carlo Fassi's "magic skates" that he dispensed to his students causing them immediately to score well in figures, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Ahh--but prestige is an opinion, and therefore, in the eye of the beholder. And its usually the case that when, say, the Japanese Men's championship is more intense than Worlds, that the Japanese men's champion will also win Worlds.

    I have heard a few ladies' competitors from the US-centric eras claim they were more proud of their US championships than their World medals. If that's how they feel, I am more than willing to believe them on the subject.

    Of course, part of that was a general feeling that there was cheating in the figures section of Worlds. Certainly, scores were often very suspicious. There was the story of Carlo Fassi's "magic skates" that he dispensed to his students causing them immediately to score well in figures, for example.
    For some of the American skaters' expression of desire to have National title more than World medals, I take it as follows:

    1. They are not yet ready physically and/or mentally to go out onto international stage. A national's title is the most they could realistically hope for at the moment. They might be forced to be content with what they have in their pocket because they couldn't get more.

    2. A National's title is taken as the stepping stone to the higher level. So it seems the right direction to get it first, then go on to get the international titles later.

    Of course there are plenty skaters who went the other way around, and get the nationals title later. There are some who got international title but failed to have even once the national title, such as Sarah Hughes. It looks more like she wasn't good enough, just lucky in the right time and right place. But it absolutely could not be concluded from it that the US Nationals is better than the Olympics.

    Alexei Yagudin's missing Russian national's title on his resume didn't and will never be a factor to affect his greatness. People think that there must be something wrong with Russian Nationals, not something wrong with Yagudin. In fact, in his last a few years of competitive skating, he gave up the opportunity of competing at Russian Nationals all together because he didn't care that title. It was not that he was there and lost in those years.

    I will never believe that Johnny Weir, or Tanith&Ben for that matter (trying to be on topic)were absolutely content with missing international gold medals. I will never believe that they see the US National title more worthy than a Worlds title or an Olympic title.

    3. Color matters. A gold is a gold. A National Champion sounds better than a World bronze medalist. It's true everywhere. But A World Champion is a much greater honor than a National Champion, even in US (I believe).

    4. I don't believe in any way that USFSA is such a clean fish in a muddy water. Don't believe that there isn't any politics in US Nationals, even in ice dance. Though I didn't study it closely so I don't have more examples. The Lysacek vs. Weir those years have proved that there were something going on.

    5. The Nationals often inflated results have automatically undermined the credibilities of it.


    I'm usually quite good at staying on topic. So, sorry for all the rumbling here.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-07-2010 at 02:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Thanks Doris and Mathman for the knowledge! I was trying to make fun. Now I'm taking it seriously.
    I was joking in my post. The U.S. has not been a major force in ice dance (although Blumberg and Seibert won a couple of world bronze medals in the 1970s.)

    Anyway, about the national championship. Well, obviously a world championship is a greater accomplishment than a national title.

    But for many years in American sports there was something of a tradition that every competition carries its own reward. This tradition is gone now -- in my opinion, to our loss. Now nothing has value except as a stepping stone to something else. (Whether the something else turns out to be as satisfying as we hoped is another question.)

    Baseball in the U.S. has had two separate leagues since 1901, the National League and the American League. Up until the 1950s or so, winning "The Pennant" (the championship of your league) was a big deal among fans and players alike. Then there would be the World Series -- a seven game playoff between the champions of the two leagues. This was the icing on the cake. But The Pennant! That's where the traditional rivalries aroused our emotions, the Brooklyn Trolley-Dodgers against the New York Giants, the New York Yankees versus the Boston Red Stockings!

    Nowadays each league is divided into various divisions and regions, and no one cares about winning the division or the league title except that it gets them closer to the World Series.

    In college football, historically there were a bunch of separate leagues. Winning the Big Ten championship, or the Pacific Coast League title, was huge. (In fact, if you were the University of Michigan all you really cared about was beating Ohio State.) The winner of the Big Ten got to travel to Los Angeles to take part in a big parade and football game on New Year"s Day, the Rose Bowl game.

    Now the Big Ten has twelve schools, the Pacific Coast League has Arizona and Arizona State (nowhere near the Pacific Coast), the Rose Bowl game has been co-opted into the "Bowl Championship Series" where teams jockey for points (given by sportswriters, coaches and computers) to determine the -- ta da -- National Champion.

    As for figure skating, before cable and satellite television I think it is safe to hazard that most Americans did not know that there was such a thing as the World Championship. There was a newsreel-type program called the Wide World of Sports, where you might get to see 15 seconds of Janet Lynn skating, with a voice-over, "here's U.S. Chamnpion Janet Lynn at the world figure skating championship in Bratslava."

    To which the American TV audience responded with a collective, "Where?"

    Besides U.S. Nationals, starting in the 1980s the only annual figure skating event that received national notice was Skate America. Skate America kicked off each new season and winning Skate America was something in its own right. Now Skate America seems to be nothing except, how many points did I get toward making the Grand Prix Final. I do not see this as a gain.

    In other words, we were a bunch of insular hicks who barely knew the rest of the world existed, much less took an interest in foreign athletes.

    Well, the world grows smaller and here we are. But without the historical tradition of treating every achievement as merely an obstacle in our path to something ever grander.
    Last edited by Mathman; 12-07-2010 at 08:34 PM.

  15. #15
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Speak for yourself Mathman!

    Beating the Yankees is never a minor event for a Boston Red Sox fan!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5pW1...eature=related

    Who sez we don't celebrate winning the American League pennant, especially when it's by beating the Yankees:

    The following celebration was done at Fenway Park following the Red Sox win at Yankee Stadium 2004, including the playing of "Shipping Off to Boston," accompanied by the traditional dances by small girls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEXU8...eature=related

    and by Jonathan Papelbon, Boston relief pitcher:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlnwrZc4UC0

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