Men's Free Skate - 12/11

[evangeline]

Patrick Chan's win without falls surely takes a lot of fun out of the fandom, eh? People are reduced to just grumbling about him being overscored, specifically in the P/E component, which actually comprises only about 10% of the total scores. What? No outcry about a 2-fall Oda beating the no-fall Kozuka? Or a 2-fall Takahashi placing higher than Verner and Amodio? Where is the disgust over the distinct possibility of a 2-fall winner of a major competition if Chan had bombed, withdrawn or never qualified to begin with?

No need to be so condescending...2-fall Oda did not beat no-fall Kozuka in the LP; Oda only finished above Kozuka overall because of his very strong SP. And 2-fall Daisuke finished dead last in the LP--Verner and Amodio both made the major mistake of popping their 3As in the SP, if you've forgotten, and that was what did them in.

There was some solace in a brave judge giving just scores to Chan so I looked up the judges' marks - GOE(TES) + PCS in Mens FS:

.......Chan.......Kozuka.........Oda.......Verner. ....Amodio....Takahashi

J1..6+38.25....11+39.00...11+41.25....7+36.25...8+ 36.75...-3+39.50
J2..17+45.00...10+36.75....6+39.75....9+39.00....9 +32.75.....1+36.75
J3..11+44.00...7+37.00.....2+37.75.....5+36.75.... 11+36.25...0+42.50
J4..14+44.75...2+37.75.....5+39.25....10+35.75.... 2+38.75....2*+43.75
J5..22+41.75...9+41.50....13+41.00....12+35.75...9 +36.00....-5+42.25
J6..10+42.50...17+37.75....3+37.50...17+37.50....6 +36.00....-4+39.25
J7..16+42.75...9+40.00.....0+37.00....10+37.00.... 4+31.25.....2+43.75
J8..11+43.75...7+37.75.....4+41.25....8+35.50..... 4+34.50....-1+35.75
J9..17+45.50..16+42.75....7+39.00....7+39.75.....8 +35.00....-5+39.75

*Judge4 gave +3 GOE to Dai's ChSt1 which Dai himself is disappointed in.

The Honorable Judge Number One is obviously the Hero, whom I shall adress as a third person masculine. Truly out-of-corridor scores for Patrick. In fact, he's the only one to give the lowest marks in both TES and PCS to a single skater. Judge5 gave the highest TES to Patrick but not the highest PCS and he is generally generous to other skaters as well. Not our Judge1, who is stingy only with Patrick Chan.

Let's compare how Judge1 scored the no-fall champion and the last placed Florent Amodio. Patrick's PCS is only 1.5 points over Florent's but his GOEs by Judge1 is 2 points lower than Florent's! So he's scored lower than Florent net! And remember ChSt1, the step sequence deemed level 1 for everybody? The over 30 seconds of deep edged fast turns and flying all over the rink that Patrick did to bring his program to a climatic end? He got 1 GOE point for his effort from Judge1 whereas Florent recieved 2 points for all his posing, glaring and thrusting with great musicality.

There you go. Along with 8 corrupted colluding judges, there's one to be gleeful for. Some of you need to sacrifice more goats to get more hero judges like Judge1 so the system can be saved, or more importantly, Patrick Chan may be bannished.

Eta: Sorry. I tried to make neat figures but to no avail, even if they looked fine when I wrote them.

And I assume by the goat references, you were referring to me regarding Judge No. 1. When did I ever say he/she was fair? When I said that judge no. 1 "had balls," I meant in the Vanessa Riley* sense--i.e. completely going outside the corridor when judging and producing a completely bizarre result. I actually disagree with Judge no. 1 giving 7s to Patrick, especially in SS and TR--I have said this before and I will say again: no matter how much I disagree with Patrick's IN and PE marks, I admit that he deserves high 8s and/or 9s in SS and TR.



*I think Vanessa is a laugh riot, but the only times I've really agreed with her crazy marking was whenever Surya Bonaly was up on the chopping block. Fadeev wuzrobbed at 1989 Euros!

[ImaginaryPogue]

evangeline, you've repeatedly labelled discussions with those who defend Chan's scores per the system as condescending. Keeping in mind that we operate in an environment where people complain when he skates well (which admittedly is amusing to me), how do we debate? Your reponse to SkateFiguring seems to be the exact same one people have been trying to give - looking at the rules and rendering an explanation. If he does it with a sense of irony, well, we've seen Chan get beat up pretty brutally on the internet (lest we forget there were 20 pages of Chan hate during Skate Canada).

I'm willing to wager at Worlds if Chan skates well and posts a high score, you'll hear the same "I can't believe that's a record" score despite the fact that there are a number of reasons outside Chan's/judges control that contribute to that (like the higher base value for elements). It's the internet, so conviction in ignorance is nothing new (and this isn't directed at you at all), but it's still frustrating nonetheless, and humour is one way to oppose it.

[silverlake22]

I think every Euro Fed can send anyone they choose to the Worlds regardless of the Euros Results. The Czech Republic only can send one, and that will be Tomas. Better than sending an injured skater. I like Tomas, too., but I prefer Michal.

Just checked the math and Czech Republic has 2 spots for Euros and Worlds. Every skater that doesn't make the FS gets 18 points (Pavel at Worlds last season) so then add Michal's 4 to that and you get 22, and to get 2 spots at Worlds you need under 28 points. That's right, yes? One man might have to skate in the qualifying round, but I'm pretty sure 2 get to go.

[SkateFiguring]

evangeline, I didn't mean to offend or target you. So much Chan bashing has just kind of melded together and I was amusing myself with observation of reactions to good results from Chan. Didn't recall who was doing goat sacrifices though it's funny. My "voodoo" is a little secret joke with myself.

It's weekend and I like doing and seeing things in numbers. There has been a lot of condemnation of the scoring corridor but when I organized the scores today, I found there were good reasons for the corridor. Marking differently is not forbidden or automatically wrong but it does merit some examinations. It's the same way governements pick who to audit by seeing what stands out from the norm.

I tried to see if there really was unfair scoring for Patrick but found instead unfair scoring against him. Always interesting to actually look at facts and numbers.

[Bluebonnet]

How many quads in competition has Patrick Chan attempted this season so far? 6 in 6 programs in 3 competitions. How many quads has he successfully done? 4 including one in combination. Impressive in deed! Patrick Chan is a trooper! Besides his quads, I've found that his spins are very good too. Not as fast , but as well centered as Lambiel's. When he raised his hands in the air during spinning, it looks great! I still disliked his hands though. Overscored or not, happy for him to win the GPF.

[pangtongfan]

I actually had no problem with any of the scoring of the mens event at the GP final. What a surprising relief after the ghastly scoring especialy for Patrick Chan throughout the GP which was a complete embarassment to the already fading in popularity sport. However this time they scored both programs pretty much exactly right.

[pangtongfan]

As for Chan being overscored or not here, who cares he was still much better than anyone else. I agree his score was too much but he deserved to be far above Oda or Kozuka's performances. The problem is in when he gets placings he clearly doesnt deserve (Skate Canada) or is very close to one he clearly doesnt deserve (Russia). He is still probably the most overscored skater in history but when he clearly beats his competitors then it becomes a moot point.

[seniorita]

Thank you Silverlake for your info on Michal - my current favorite in the Men's Division. It sounds horrible that his injury is not healing all that quickly. I really missed him at the GPs.

I think every Euro Fed can send anyone they choose to the Worlds regardless of the Euros Results. The Czech Republic only can send one, and that will be Tomas. Better than sending an injured skater. I like Tomas, too., but I prefer Michal.

No, Czech republic has two spots for Europeans 2011.They earned it from Euros 2010 according to qualification rules. Brezina and Tomas placements last year = 14

[museksk8r]

As for Chan being overscored or not here, who cares he was still much better than anyone else. I agree his score was too much but he deserved to be far above Oda or Kozuka's performances. The problem is in when he gets placings he clearly doesnt deserve (Skate Canada) or is very close to one he clearly doesnt deserve (Russia). He is still probably the most overscored skater in history but when he clearly beats his competitors then it becomes a moot point.

I agree with you. Patrick finally delivered 2 performances that he and his fans can be proud of, and I am very happy for him that he achieved that finally! This is the first time that I have enjoyed him this season. IF he skates like this or better and wins at Worlds, then I will be very happy for him there too.

[pangtongfan]

I agree with you. Patrick finally delivered 2 performances that he and his fans can be proud of, and I am very happy for him that he achieved that finally! This is the first time that I have enjoyed him this season. IF he skates like this or better and wins at Worlds, then I will be very happy for him there too.

Exactly. When he skates this well he deserves to win. And other than a 100% Takahashi there isnt anyone who can really beat him when he skates that well anyway. And he is certainly superior to Lysacek, the winner of the biggest events the last 2 years, when he skates well, especialy now with a quad. That wont stop those of us who want fairness in the sport the times he falls 6 times and wins an event though.

[Buzzz]

Congratulations to Patrick Chan on winning his first GPF title and landing a nice quad. They actually showed some of his winning program of the evening news.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Chan's charming ex

[gmyers]

I forget in what thread I posted about Chan landing a quad an triple axel in the same program but he did it at the GPF which is good for him. I think that may have been earlier than I predicted I am not sure LOL.

[seniorita]

Chan's charming ex

The first program was very cool, I really enjoyed it He should incorporate this humor in one of his competitive programs!

And Kozu ex

[silverlake22]

Chan's charming ex

He's a funny one