Men's Free Skate - 12/11 | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Men's Free Skate - 12/11

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
It's worth mentioning that in the short program, Dai had higher PCS in Performance and Interpretation, with Chan taking the rest.

As for Chan's transitions adding nothing to the overall program, I disagree. I think the spread eagle before the 3F-3T combo is a rapturous delight of a moment. It worked better when it was a lead-in for the triple loop, but I still like it.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Yes it was better when the Loop was there because it was a clean lead-in to the jump. Whereas with the Flip in that spot now, he has to take a step beforehand and it breaks the cadence. If he stayed on the edge of the left foot from the spread eagle and toepicked directly into the Flip, now THAT would be impressive.

Ultimately he doesn't really show emotion while performing the move, though, so it lacks the impact it really should have. The program as a whole doesn't connect together either. The movements are there for their own individual purpose (getting a higher Transitions score) rather than relating to each other and building towards a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts. The bad music cuts are partially the problem.

I don't want to see too much "busy work". There is nothing wrong with going into a jump with NO "transition" before or after if you explode off the ice and have good speed, flow, and edges (and are staying in character to the music rather than just telegraphing). Having an unfettered entrance and exit to a jump can in fact be GREAT choreography and interpretation. A clear, simple gliding build-up to a jump can create tension and make the release more impactful. Skating cleanly out of the exit rather than doing some turn or swoopy movement allows the power of the jump to be further reveled in.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Am I the only person who found the tone of skatinginbc's comments #114 to be one of humourous sarcasm not seriousness? I wouldn't expect the non-native English speakers to pick up on this, they take everything pretty literally...but the rest of us? :sheesh: (sk..bc, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

I am a non-native speaker and I didn't intend to be sarcastic.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
eta: I went back to read skatinginbc's post and am not sure if s/he was being snarky. Anyway, saying you wish to smack someone on the face is not a comment on that person's skating or character. It's a not so meticulous or classy way of expressing his own negative emotions. Did he explain why he felt this way?

The interviewer was Jeanne Beker, who covers fashion and lifestyle news for CTV. The one I watched apparently was a re-run, originally aired at 5pm on Sunday, Dec. 5. She asked about how the skating community responded to his flamboyancy, and Johnny said that he was rejected by many. He specifically mentioned Patrick Chan and said that he would love to smack him on the face. So, based on the context, he seemed to be referring to Chan's public denouncement of his flower crown or "unprofessional" attire. Yes, it is old news and I believe it had been discussed before. But hearing Johnny himself saying that he would smack Chan shocked me tremendously. I was convinced that Johnny was hurt by whatever Chan did to him or said about him. I have no problem with Chan's eager portrait of himself as a normal boy who plays hockey and football, but if he puts others down to do so and lets slip his intolerance of others that are different, how can I still support him and be his fan? Diversity is what makes Canada a proud country, and what makes Chan's "rape eyes" not only acceptable but also lovable to many. Enemies of diversity will be my enemies, no matter if they have supreme skating skills or not.
 
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bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
^^^^ OK I get it now. You are a non-native speaker and were serious, quite literal that you have changed your opinion of Chan to the negative. Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
The interviewer was Jeanne Beker, who covers fashion and lifestyle news for CTV. The one I watched apparently was a re-run, originally aired at 5pm on Sunday, Dec. 5. She asked about how the skating community responded to his flamboyancy, and Johnny said that he was rejected by many. He specifically mentioned Patrick Chan and said that he would love to smack him on the face. So, based on the context, he seemed to be referring to Chan's public denouncement of his flower crown or "unprofessional" attire. Yes, it is old news and I believe it had been discussed before. But hearing Johnny himself saying that he would smack Chan shocked me tremendously. I was convinced that Johnny was hurt by whatever Chan did to him or said about him. I have no problem with Chan's eager portrait of himself as a normal boy who plays hockey and football, but if he puts others down to do so and lets slip his intolerance of others that are different, how can I still support him and be his fan? Diversity is what makes Canada a proud country, and what makes Chan's "rape eyes" not only acceptable but also lovable to many. Enemies of diversity will be my enemies, no matter if they have supreme skating skills or not.

Ah, so it's not Chan's skating that Johnny disliked so much.:)

You know what? It did the opposit to me. My respect and admiration for Patrick Chan has grown everyday.:laugh:

Chan has the right to say how he thinks about Weir if the journalists asked his thought on Weir's flower crown. I've never seen Chan's eagerness in anywhere to prove his own masculinity to anyone like Evan Lysacek did. I think Chan is totally natural on this account.

Johnny's comment has shocked you probably because you've never heard Johnny talking like this before. He has said a lot of things on that "D" level already and they've become my laughing points by now. Example, he called Lysacek a "slore". I believe if Johnny would really smack the faces of anyone who say anything to denounce his style on and off ice, his hand would be bruised soon enough.

It seems to me that you have raised up the level of both Chan's and Weir's comments to a level that should not be at. Anything has a limit. Somethings are intolerant at some level. It is 100% wrong to put everything under the protection of the words such as "Diversity" and "Freedom". I don't want to go into it too deep, or it'll become a political issue again. In short, you have your view and I have my. Yours and mine might be different. But you are fine with your own view. So there is no reason to make yourself so miserable. If you don't like Chan from now on, you are not alone. Have a nice day!
 
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pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
You shouldn't have "light body demeanor" when you are skating to Phantom of the Opera. That is BAD interpretation. Patrick Chan hardly understands the anguish and solitude of the music. Takahashi's performance at 2007 Worlds was FAR ahead of Chan's here at the GPF. That PCS mark of 87 is ridiculous (it's a new record in PCS for a single men's skater, I think). Chan's skating does not have emotional maturity, nor does he have creative content. He has a lot of transitions but those transitions are almost meaningless within the scope of the program. They don't serve the music or an overall choreographic idea or really even create a striking image on their own. They are simply extra movements.

Wow for once we agree on something.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Thank you skatinginbc for your explanation. I understand very well your feeling on anti-deversity as I do strongly, on both personal and societal level.

I find Patrick's comment on the flower crown pretty uptight on a harmless and playful act by Johnny. He might be too earnest and not prudent to express such opinion publicly but I don't detect any personal "attack" or anti-gay sentiment on his part. It's about a conduct he found unprofessional and disrespectful to the sport he's in and tries to represent well. We don't have to agree with him and many don't.

The ugly attacks on Johnny didn't come from Patrick. It came from Evan and the French Canadian commentators who "questioned" his gender. They owed him an apology. OTOH, Johnny has been really "flamboyant" and extreme in his attires these days. In eagerly seeking attention, he's bound to attract negative ones as well. He can't be so thin-skinned.

If Johnny really feels so hurt by Patrick comment, he should understand how hurt Patrick might have felt by the volume of much worst personal comments against him. He had known Patrick personally. If Patrick had anti-diversity sentiment, he would have known and not have to decide on one guileless comment. It was not cool to ride on the anti-Chan wagon and pile on more inaccurate portrayal. I can't deny how Johnny feels for himself, but he could be more gracious and forgiving toward someone quite a bit younger and on the cusp of adulthood, or criticize Patrick in a classier manner. He's done enough public denouncements of Patrick already.

My counsel for you, since you seek one, is to observe each person on his own and by his actual deeds and decide for yourself. If others' opionions are important, consider, on the whole, those of the people who have actual relationships or at least interactions with the person.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Nothing they've said is any meaner than you've (let's talk) posted anonymously on the internet, so.... But I agree, Takahashi and Kozuka are gentlemen.
Come on... you just proved that you the winner of who-is-meaner. And yeah, Dai and Tak are both gentlemen and actually I am not surprised with such a graceful behaviour and a honorable reaction from Japanese men. And yes, Chan did badmouth and pooh practically about all of his competitiors last year and this year too. And yes, he is unbelievably overscored. The worst thing is I don't see any potential. He will be the same as now, at 19yo or at 25yo. You wanna call it "mean opinion" about the precious Patrick, go ahead. Ouch.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Come on... you just proved that you the winner of who-is-meaner. And yeah, Dai and Tak are both gentlemen and actually I am not surprised with such a graceful behaviour and a honorable reaction from Japanese men. And yes, Chan did badmouth and pooh practically about all of his competitiors last year and this year too. And yes, he is unbelievably overscored. The worst thing is I don't see any potential. He will be the same as now, at 19yo or at 25yo. You wanna call it "mean opinion" about the precious Patrick, go ahead. Ouch.

Talking about your previous statements regarding skaters without quads ("girlish" I believe was your word). But okay. We'll just pretend that it didn't happen.

It will bring one more girlish champion with no quads.
 

Nena

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
I find Patrick's comment on the flower crown pretty uptight on a harmless and playful act by Johnny. He might be too earnest and not prudent to express such opinion publicly but I don't detect any personal "attack" or anti-gay sentiment on his part. It's about a conduct he found unprofessional and disrespectful to the sport he's in and tries to represent well. We don't have to agree with him and many don't.

How do you know the flower crown comment is the thing Johnny is mad about? It could be something that happened in private that we don't know about.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
How do you know the flower crown comment is the thing Johnny is mad about? It could be something that happened in private that we don't know about.

You're right. I can't know for sure. It's the timing that caused me to think so. Johnny didn't have any issue with Patrick before. Here's an unchoreographed handholding of the two in Korea. Even during the Olympics, before the competition, Johnny's only comment about Patrick was that he was not intimited by a "17 year old" kid. All his denouncements came after the flower crown incident at the Olympics. And his expressed wish to smack Patrick in the face was in response to question about being rejected by skaters "due to his flamboyant style".

From all videos and photos, Patrick seems to be friends with other skaters he interacts with, media's portrayal not withstanding. He also has good relationships with skaters who are said to be gay. He said he was teased and called gay as a kid when he practiced skating and I understand nobody likes to be called as a different gender or sexual orientation as they really are. However, Patrick hasn't exhibited any homophobic behavior that I know of. If he offended Johnny in private on any issue, Johnny should clarify that. Methinks Johnny is bitter about the Olympics results and he didn't like that Patrick was just above him, taking away his exhibitaion skate. He's certainly voiced his disapproval of his Olympic placement.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
You're right. I can't know for sure. It's the timing that caused me to think so. Johnny didn't have any issue with Patrick before. Here's an unchoreographed handholding of the two in Korea. Even during the Olympics, before the competition, Johnny's only comment about Patrick was that he was not intimited by a "17 year old" kid. All his denouncements came after the flower crown incident at the Olympics. And his expressed wish to smack Patrick in the face was in response to question about being rejected by skaters "due to his flamboyant style".

From all videos and photos, Patrick seems to be friends with other skaters he interacts with, media's portrayal not withstanding. He also has good relationships with skaters who are said to be gay. He said he was teased and called gay as a kid when he practiced skating and I understand nobody likes to be called as a different gender or sexual orientation as they really are. However, Patrick hasn't exhibited any homophobic behavior that I know of. If he offended Johnny in private on any issue, Johnny should clarify that. Methinks Johnny is bitter about the Olympics results and he didn't like that Patrick was just above him, taking away his exhibitaion skate. He's certainly voiced his disapproval of his Olympic placement.

That's such a bad picture of Patrick. His legs look like short little stumps.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Talking about your previous statements regarding skaters without quads ("girlish" I believe was your word).
Quad was introduced in men's skating more than three decades ago, successully landed more than two decades ago. It became one of the feature of men's competitions. Girls are sticked with triples. That's girlish.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Quad was introduced in men's skating more than three decades ago, successully landed more than two decades ago. It became one of the feature of men's competitions. Girls are sticked with triples. That's girlish.

Miki and Sasha tried quads in competition almost a decade ago.
Does that make them "boyish" :rolleye:


http://www.hollywoodcollectibles.com/catalog/images/sasha-cohen-8x10-ker8.jpg


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_pEzjMmz9c5k/RpSB4uIZlMI/AAAAAAAAAVk/5xAkEFEPYq4/s640/DSCF7879.JPG


Does this make him girlish :eek:

http://renne.ro/wp-content/uploads/evgeni-plushenko.jpg
 
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skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Chan has the right to say how he thinks about Weir if the journalists asked his thought on Weir's flower crown...Johnny's comment has shocked you probably because you've never heard Johnny talking like this before".

1) Thanks to the link provided by SkateFiguring, I was able to watch Matt Wells' interview with Chan. And I concluded that Chan was NEVER specifically asked about the flower crown. He singled Johnny out and volunteered his criticism on it.

2) You are right. In the past, I have geared myself away from off-ice drama and did not bother to read threads on those incidents. So it was a shock to me when I flipped the TV channel and heard Johnny's malign remark, which was out of vengence of being put down, not on ice, but off ice, just as his "slore" response to Lysacek's labeling him a whiner. Is there any incident that Johnny started a fight?

By the way, I knew this thread is supposed to be about GPF Man's Free and I sort of hijacked it due to my lack of knowhow of creating a new thread. I would like to apologize to everyone for it.
 
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