Men's Free Skate - 12/11 | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Men's Free Skate - 12/11

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Haha, this time Patrick Chan actually deserved to win! It was really out of the ordinary that Daisuke would fall twice, and once on a non-jump. Too bad Nobu fell too. I hate Florent Amodio's crotch-grabbing.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I guess I'm not surprised. Dai was injured and Oda has to totally be clean or the other skaters (Taka, Chan etc) have to self implode for him to win. He just doesn't have the presence to beat these guys if he's not clean.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Contesti??? How so? have you seen his last season and this one so far, his scores? He is not a medal contender, since the time he won a medal at Euros in 2008-2009 season I havent seen him on top of his game. Only at Filandia trophy he skated sort of well. And judges have dropped him. I would add Schultheiss rather Contesti on the Euro list.
Brezina is still injured , i dont know if he is back on ice. But he was watching GPF.

Yeah Contesti isn't a medal threat at Worlds, at least not this season when the field is so deep. He may have a shot to medal at Euros though depending on how Joubert and Brezina are skating by then.

Even though Verner didn't skate his best here, that's his 3rd solid FS of the season which is encouraging. Also he got +GOE on both his 3a which is good news because I know sometimes that jump is a bit skary for him. I think he has a very good chance of winning Euros this year, or at least medaling there, and he might not even need to quad to do it if he can keep skating consistently in the LP.

Amodio was also not his best but was quite good in the FS for the 3rd time this season and also looks poised to medal going into Europeans. I also think at Euros he will get a bit of a PCS boost because he will be one of the best skaters in that field and won't be competing against skaters as strong as most of the ones here there.

Even though the 2 Europeans were 5th and 6th, I think it was impressive they both made the final and actually think they are in a good position going into Euros. They both skated pretty well here, but they know they can do better which will probably push them to up the training intensity going into Euros and be ready to lay it all down there. I mean do others agree? Or do you think Verner and Amodio placing 5th and 6th here will hurt them and serve as a red flag going into Euros?
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
This is wonderful news.

Is there any doubt now that a clean Chan will not be beaten ?

Based on the scores Chan has received for subpar skates this season, I don't think anyone ever doubted that a clean Chan can be beaten.

Whether they agree with this in principle, however, is another matter.
 

BigJohn

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Based on the scores Chan has received for subpar skates this season, I don't think anyone ever doubted that a clean Chan can be beaten.

Whether they agree with this in principle, however, is another matter.

Could it be that some people don't really like skating?
 

genki

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Chan deserved to win this time. But Score? Just a complete joke. PCS 87, haha . Chan's performance never touches my heart as Dai's or Jeremy's do.
Why it is not reflected in PCS? Can we get old " Artistic Impression" back?

BTW, it is clear that Dai's injury is much more severe than he admits. I can see it from his skating this time. So hard to watch.
I hope he takes care of himself well so that he can skate at
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Could it be that some people don't really like skating?

Or could it be that some people are tired of snide insinuations that they are too unsophisticated (or lack the sufficient Deep and Profound Knowledge of CoP and skating) to understand Chan's greatness?
 

genki

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Sorry, my last sentence should have said, so that he can skate at the nationals in perfect condition.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Protocols say that Takahashi tried to go for a quad flip like he did at worlds. He was trying to do something to get back up in the standings.
 

callalily

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Chan's performance never touches my heart as Dai's or Jeremy's do.
Why it is not reflected in PCS? Can we get old " Artistic Impression" back?

I hear what you're saying, but what touches one person's heart can be quite different from what touches another's. Very subjective.

Also, I don't have any nostalgia for 6.0. It was more intuitive for the audience, but the subjectivity created incredible scope for manipulation. In ice dance, remember when placements in the CD (which were generally based on prior rankings, dues paid, etc.) dictated placements in all of the remaining competition segments, regardless of how anyone executed on the day?

In singles, it was a little better, since errors are more obvious to the general audience, but artistic impression marks were routinely used to prop up skaters on the basis of their reputation (and other factors). The new judging system will continue to be refined over time, but 6.0 was a mess.
Just think - what if the Internet and chat boards like this one had made worldwide mass communication between fans possible back in the heyday of 6.0? There would have been a firestorm of outrage over many of the results.

Also, regarding Chan's marks - whether or not he touches a particular person's heart (he may touch another's), his programs are jam-packed with moves that allow him to accumulate points under the marking system. And it's tough to do...level 4 spins and footwork, jumps with difficult entrances, transitions galore...not everyone can pull that off (not even him, so he makes his share of errors too). But I don't think people should blame him for understanding the marking system, packing a lot of difficulty into his programs and scoring well as a result.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
A lot of people seem really frustrated by the fact that Chan's posted near record breaking scores. I thought it was worth mentioning that...

1. Quad toes are now worth 1.3 points MORE than they were when Takahashi posted his score.
2. Triple Axels are worth 1 point more.
3. That despite the loss of the level-step sequence, the raising of GOE's for the choreographed step sequence means that it's potentially a HUGE points earner, regardless.

So Chan's working with about a five point advantage. Then mention the fact that judges are clearly more comfortable operating within the higher regions of the PCS (three teams scoring tens last year) and the general fact that points trend upwards in general, this skate would probably be a good 8-10 points behind Takahashi's were they compared on the same system/playing field.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Or could it be that some people are tired of snide insinuations that they are too unsophisticated (or lack the sufficient Deep and Profound Knowledge of CoP and skating) to understand Chan's greatness?

I wish there was a signature option again, I would put this in mine right away, voila.take a goat for this.:) First thing my sister-who is more casual viewer- noticed once is that fs audience is rather snobbish comparing to the gymnastics one.Mocking someone for his preferences in a sport is far from sophisticated attitude in my book.
I watched the vids again on youtube, Dai is Mr Personality for me, and demands attention like none. Falls and all, he is unique, I dont feel he is checking the boxes just. Kozuka is just a joy to watch, he skates free and he is so special in the way he moves. I also enjoned Amodio's Lp, while it is nothing like last season the boy has presence and flies there. He is my fav to win euros. I probably enjoy his skating cause Iam shallow and uneducuted by the einstein's standars of posters here.
I want to see the scientifc survey for the idiocity that has been implied here many times that female audience in figure skating is satisfied with pelevic thrusts and all that, and appreciates skates like Dai's or Joubs sp for example for this reason and their programs are worthy to collect the girl audience screams, and male audience are all for the rachmaninofs and gershwins.

Even though the 2 Europeans were 5th and 6th, I think it was impressive they both made the final and actually think they are in a good position going into Euros. They both skated pretty well here, but they know they can do better which will probably push them to up the training intensity going into Euros and be ready to lay it all down there. I mean do others agree? Or do you think Verner and Amodio placing 5th and 6th here will hurt them and serve as a red flag going into Euros?

I agree. And I think it is a good thing their GPF participation and it only adds, they had a decent skate against the top of world right now that is Chan, Oda, Dai and Kozuka. I mean these 4 skaters it was clear in Gp series they are the frontrunners. I think also VErner might win euros this year. And Amodio seems more consistent under Morozov coaching, he has done huge steps in that aspect since last season, and the whole touring in the off season did miracles to his confidence, and judges seem to like him, he is a crowd favorite also, I m sure at Euros he will rock the arena. Besides the whole field is not so deep, apart from Joubert, Brezina, Tomas and Amodio it is only Fernandez and Schults, I dont think Contesti, KVDP and Brentsson are contenders for podium unless there is a massive bombing. And i dont know who Russia will sent, I guess Arthur and who else? Voronov or Borodulin health issues I dont know them.
 
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callalily

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
A lot of people seem really frustrated by the fact that Chan's posted near record breaking scores. I thought it was worth mentioning that...

1. Quad toes are now worth 1.3 points MORE than they were when Takahashi posted his score.
2. Triple Axels are worth 1 point more.
3. That despite the loss of the level-step sequence, the raising of GOE's for the choreographed step sequence means that it's potentially a HUGE points earner, regardless.

So Chan's working with about a five point advantage. Then mention the fact that judges are clearly more comfortable operating within the higher regions of the PCS (three teams scoring tens last year) and the general fact that points trend upwards in general, this skate would probably be a good 8-10 points behind Takahashi's were they compared on the same system/playing field.

Excellent points. You can't directly compare scores year-to-year, for these very reasons.

Due to a combination of factors, Chan is not particularly popular on Internet skating boards, so even though he skated well at the GPF he has many critics and few defenders. What discourages me though, is when certain knowledgeable posters (who know the scoring system very well and know that point values have changed) make attempts to directly compare his scores to those of previous years, rolling their eyes in the process. Those particular people know better and clearly just want to bash him...and it works, because others who don't know the system as well go along for the ride. (Just to clarify, I am NOT talking about anyone here; I noticed this on another board.)

I am not the biggest Chan fan (there are others I prefer) but I can't get over the schoolyard bullying mentality that has set in. A few influential posters set the stage and the mob grows. Very discouraging, especially since some of this is based on perceptions of personality, not actual skating.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I wish there was a signature option again, I would put this in mine right away, voila.take a goat for this.:) First thing my sister-who is more casual viewer- noticed once is that fs audience is rather snobbish comparing to the gymnastics one.Mocking someone for his preferences in a sport is far from sophisticated attitude in my book.
I watched the vids again on youtube, Dai is Mr Personality for me, and demands attention like none. Falls and all, he is unique, I dont feel he is checking the boxes just. Kozuka is just a joy to watch, he skates free and he is so special in the way he moves. I also enjoned Amodio's Lp, while it is nothing like last season the boy has presence and flies there. He is my fav to win euros. I probably enjoy his skating cause Iam shallow and uneducuted by the einstein's standars of posters here.
I want to see the scientifc survey for the idiocity that has been implied here many times that female audience in figure skating is satisfied with pelevic thrusts and all that, and appreciates skates like Dai's or Joubs sp for example for this reason and their programs are worthy to collect the girl audience screams, and male audience are all for the rachmaninofs and gershwins.

Thank you! That goat was sorely needed...I'm only a poor student and my goat-purchasing budget is sorely strained from buying all those zebras to sacrifice for Lambiel last season. :)

Regarding your point about skating snobbery: to be honest, I used to be very snobbish about crowd-pleasing skaters like Joubert too (less so here, more on another forum) and I guess I still can be to some extent but I've got to the point that I've seen so many boring, dull, and soulless paint-by-numbers programs that I can't help but sit back and enjoy a skater that at least tries to be halfway engaging and remembers that an audience is watching him.

Take Amodio for example. Yes, Amodio does a lot of posing and crowd-pandering movements in his routine. Yes, people scream like banshees during his LP. But so what? It's truly entertaining, and I can say with certainty that not all skaters can emote and move the way Amodio does. It'll be nice if he incorporates more of his choreography while he's skating--but he is nevertheless interpreting the music very well. You don't have to be a screaming, hormonal teenage girl to appreciate and enjoy what Amodio does.




...but I think Tomas Verner will win Euros. Amodio will podium, however.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I agree. And I think it is a good thing their GPF participation and it only adds, they had a decent skate against the top of world right now that is Chan, Oda, Dai and Kozuka. I mean these 4 skaters it was clear in Gp series they are the frontrunners. I think also VErner might win euros this year. And Amodio seems more consistent under Morozov coaching, he has done huge steps in that aspect since last season, and the whole touring in the off season did miracles to his confidence, and judges seem to like him, he is a crowd favorite also, I m sure at Euros he will rock the arena. Besides the whole field is not so deep, apart from Joubert, Brezina, Tomas and Amodio it is only Fernandez and Schults, I dont think Contesti, KVDP and Brentsson are contenders for podium unless there is a massive bombing. And i dont know who Russia will sent, I guess Arthur and who else? Voronov or Borodulin health issues I dont know them.

I think for Russia, Konstantin Menshov might be sent with Arthur Gatchinski. He has a quad in his arsenal and is quite a good jumper when he's "on". Although if Voronov is recovered from his injury in time for Russian nats and skates there he will probably go with Arthur.

The other thing is that Brezina skated a very poor SP at GoldenSpin so it seems like his recovery is going slow so he likely won't be at his best at Euros, although even not at his best he probably has a good shot to medal. Also Czech nationals are in a week so Verner can probably win that unless Michal can bounce back to his form from last season over the course of a week, which seems like too much to ask for, and so that should also help his confidence for Euros. I think at Euros it will be Verner, Amodio, and Joubert (and Brezina if he is skating like his old self by then) fighting for gold and then Contesti, KVDP, Gatchinski and Preaubert fighting for a medal should the frontrunners falter.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Contesti skated well in the LP of his second GP (what was it, Russia? the memories of them seem to blend into one for me lol). Is it just me or has he lost quite a bit of weight this season? It could just be his costume, but he looked 10-15 lbs lighter.
 
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