Men's Free Skate - 12/11

[let`s talk]

Nothing they've said is any meaner than you've (let's talk) posted anonymously on the internet, so.... But I agree, Takahashi and Kozuka are gentlemen.

Come on... you just proved that you the winner of who-is-meaner. And yeah, Dai and Tak are both gentlemen and actually I am not surprised with such a graceful behaviour and a honorable reaction from Japanese men. And yes, Chan did badmouth and pooh practically about all of his competitiors last year and this year too. And yes, he is unbelievably overscored. The worst thing is I don't see any potential. He will be the same as now, at 19yo or at 25yo. You wanna call it "mean opinion" about the precious Patrick, go ahead. Ouch.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Come on... you just proved that you the winner of who-is-meaner. And yeah, Dai and Tak are both gentlemen and actually I am not surprised with such a graceful behaviour and a honorable reaction from Japanese men. And yes, Chan did badmouth and pooh practically about all of his competitiors last year and this year too. And yes, he is unbelievably overscored. The worst thing is I don't see any potential. He will be the same as now, at 19yo or at 25yo. You wanna call it "mean opinion" about the precious Patrick, go ahead. Ouch.

Talking about your previous statements regarding skaters without quads ("girlish" I believe was your word). But okay. We'll just pretend that it didn't happen.

It will bring one more girlish champion with no quads.

[Nena]

I find Patrick's comment on the flower crown pretty uptight on a harmless and playful act by Johnny. He might be too earnest and not prudent to express such opinion publicly but I don't detect any personal "attack" or anti-gay sentiment on his part. It's about a conduct he found unprofessional and disrespectful to the sport he's in and tries to represent well. We don't have to agree with him and many don't.

How do you know the flower crown comment is the thing Johnny is mad about? It could be something that happened in private that we don't know about.

[SkateFiguring]

How do you know the flower crown comment is the thing Johnny is mad about? It could be something that happened in private that we don't know about.

You're right. I can't know for sure. It's the timing that caused me to think so. Johnny didn't have any issue with Patrick before. Here's an unchoreographed handholding of the two in Korea. Even during the Olympics, before the competition, Johnny's only comment about Patrick was that he was not intimited by a "17 year old" kid. All his denouncements came after the flower crown incident at the Olympics. And his expressed wish to smack Patrick in the face was in response to question about being rejected by skaters "due to his flamboyant style".

From all videos and photos, Patrick seems to be friends with other skaters he interacts with, media's portrayal not withstanding. He also has good relationships with skaters who are said to be gay. He said he was teased and called gay as a kid when he practiced skating and I understand nobody likes to be called as a different gender or sexual orientation as they really are. However, Patrick hasn't exhibited any homophobic behavior that I know of. If he offended Johnny in private on any issue, Johnny should clarify that. Methinks Johnny is bitter about the Olympics results and he didn't like that Patrick was just above him, taking away his exhibitaion skate. He's certainly voiced his disapproval of his Olympic placement.

[silverlake22]

You're right. I can't know for sure. It's the timing that caused me to think so. Johnny didn't have any issue with Patrick before. Here's an unchoreographed handholding of the two in Korea. Even during the Olympics, before the competition, Johnny's only comment about Patrick was that he was not intimited by a "17 year old" kid. All his denouncements came after the flower crown incident at the Olympics. And his expressed wish to smack Patrick in the face was in response to question about being rejected by skaters "due to his flamboyant style".

From all videos and photos, Patrick seems to be friends with other skaters he interacts with, media's portrayal not withstanding. He also has good relationships with skaters who are said to be gay. He said he was teased and called gay as a kid when he practiced skating and I understand nobody likes to be called as a different gender or sexual orientation as they really are. However, Patrick hasn't exhibited any homophobic behavior that I know of. If he offended Johnny in private on any issue, Johnny should clarify that. Methinks Johnny is bitter about the Olympics results and he didn't like that Patrick was just above him, taking away his exhibitaion skate. He's certainly voiced his disapproval of his Olympic placement.

That's such a bad picture of Patrick. His legs look like short little stumps.

[SkateFiguring]

That's such a bad picture of Patrick. His legs look like short little stumps.

Most skaters looked bad in those tight jeans IMO. Especially Johnny. Some pics show him with a big derriere in pink tights, which those jeans look like.

[seniorita]

oh poor Kozu I want to give him a hug and squeeze him until he smiles again!

[let`s talk]

Talking about your previous statements regarding skaters without quads ("girlish" I believe was your word).

Quad was introduced in men's skating more than three decades ago, successully landed more than two decades ago. It became one of the feature of men's competitions. Girls are sticked with triples. That's girlish.

[janetfan]

Quad was introduced in men's skating more than three decades ago, successully landed more than two decades ago. It became one of the feature of men's competitions. Girls are sticked with triples. That's girlish.

Miki and Sasha tried quads in competition almost a decade ago.
Does that make them "boyish"


http://www.hollywoodcollectibles.com...-8x10-ker8.jpg


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_pEzjMmz9c5k/Rp...0/DSCF7879.JPG


Does this make him girlish

http://renne.ro/wp-content/uploads/evgeni-plushenko.jpg

[skatinginbc]

Chan has the right to say how he thinks about Weir if the journalists asked his thought on Weir's flower crown...Johnny's comment has shocked you probably because you've never heard Johnny talking like this before".

1) Thanks to the link provided by SkateFiguring, I was able to watch Matt Wells' interview with Chan. And I concluded that Chan was NEVER specifically asked about the flower crown. He singled Johnny out and volunteered his criticism on it.

2) You are right. In the past, I have geared myself away from off-ice drama and did not bother to read threads on those incidents. So it was a shock to me when I flipped the TV channel and heard Johnny's malign remark, which was out of vengence of being put down, not on ice, but off ice, just as his "slore" response to Lysacek's labeling him a whiner. Is there any incident that Johnny started a fight?

By the way, I knew this thread is supposed to be about GPF Man's Free and I sort of hijacked it due to my lack of knowhow of creating a new thread. I would like to apologize to everyone for it.

[Mathman]

Quad was introduced in men's skating more than three decades ago, successully landed more than two decades ago. It became one of the feature of men's competitions. Girls are sticked with triples. That's girlish.

I agree with this. When a man does a quad-triple combo, he is a manly man (quad) who is not afraid to get in touch with his feminine side (triple).

[pangtongfan]

I think Bluebonnet is probably Chan's mom.

[Bluebonnet]

I agree with this. When a man does a quad-triple combo, he is a manly man (quad) who is not afraid to get in touch with his feminine side (triple).

Mathman!

I think Bluebonnet is probably Chan's mom.

Simple, if you think I am, then disregard all my comments about Chan.:sheesh:

[SkateFiguring]

I agree with this. When a man does a quad-triple combo, he is a manly man (quad) who is not afraid to get in touch with his feminine side (triple).

When Mathman dazzles us with numbers, he is the Math Man, who is not afraid to be in touch with his funny side.

I think Bluebonnet is probably Chan's mom.

So am I, evidently. There are so many Moms here, including Pangtongfan, evidently. Unfortunately some Moms think deriding other skaters is their motherly duty. .

[skatinginbc]

I don't detect any personal "attack" or anti-gay sentiment on his part. It's about a conduct he found unprofessional and disrespectful to the sport he's in and tries to represent well....Johnny has been really "flamboyant" and extreme in his attires these days. In eagerly seeking attention, he's bound to attract negative ones as well...He's done enough public denouncements of Patrick already...My counsel for you, since you seek one, is to observe each person on his own and by his actual deeds and decide for yourself. If others' opionions are important, consider, on the whole, those of the people who have actual relationships or at least interactions with the person.

What constitutes "unprofessional" and "disrespectful" is sometimes subjective. To me, for instance, Jeremy Abbott's yelling "I love Kung Fu" at the kiss-and-cry was annoying, and Florent Amodio's crotch grabbing was disrespectful to my eye. Would Chan consider a female skater wearing a flower crown unprofessional or disrespectful? It is all about stereotypical gender roles or maybe Chan's own insecurity of his gender image, isn't it? What he said about Johnny could apply to himself as well. One could easily argue that his interview remark was "unprofessional" and certainly "disrespectful" to another skater. "Live and let live" is a value that I treasure deeply. Although under the law he has the freedom of speech, Chan surely would lose many fans if he continues to make remarks that hurt others even if he believes he is protecting the sport. I have had multiple experiences of being yelled "Go back to your country" by total strangers who obviously were not afraid of speaking their mind and who probably believed they were protecting the commonweal. Is Chan so different from them? I will say "no" if he keeps on hurting others with his insensitive frankness.

Do you know Johnny in person? How do you know his extreme attire was out of an attention-seeking motive? It's your assumption, isn't it? Based on what? Common knowledge? Do you hold a doctoral degree in counselling or clinical psychology? I bet you don't, or you would not have jumped into that conclusion. There are many alternative explanations. For instance, biker gangs wear leather vests to proclaim their affiliations, running the risk of drawing the police's attention. Is Johnny's dress a way of his proclaiming his affiliation to a certain group that he is not ready to say? I don't know. I do know, however, that some people dress in a certain way to reflect their mental stage yet without the attention-grabbing desire. Could Johnny's extreme attire was simply his longing to live out of the "box", the stereotypical framework that defines how a man should behave, or simply his expression of his messed-up life (He just broke up with his "lover" and lost himself as he said in the recent CTV interview)? Attention may be an unwanted by-product. I am not him, so I don't know.

Yes, I indeed sought counsel. And you have helped me a lot by providing a link to Matt Wells' interview and by giving me some new perspectives. I have no intention of changing others' opinions. In fact, when I said I needed counselling, I meant I was hoping that someone like you whose insight is well-respected by me could change my opinions. I really appreciate your help. Your posts have been always highly regarded. As I said it before and I will say it again, I am really happy that you join the forum.