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Thread: Ladies short program results

  1. #16
    Go NJ Devils
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    Originally posted by Nadine
    By the way, about a month or two ago, Joesitz (a favorite poster of mine by far, whom I search out posts for b/c of his intelligence & sense of humor and that undeniable something, genuine kindness, who knows, even though I don't always agree with him) pointed out in a thread somewhere on Golden Skate that the caller at one of Sasha's competitions was Russian and a friend of TT (another Russian) and that perhaps that might have influenced a controversial call on one of her combos.....something about calling her 3Z a combo. even though she obviously didn't have one........anyhow, since then that has had me wondering.
    I was among those who thought this was a miscall; however, Ptichka looked up the rule, which says that the second time a triple or quad jump is repeated, if it was performed both times as a solo jump, the second attempt is considered part of a missed combo, and the skater receives credit for one jump only. This is true even if the skater didn't fall and/or didn't attempt to create a combo or sequence. If a triple or quad is repeated a third time, then the skater receives no credit for it.

    By that rule the call was correct, not a mistake or favor to Cohen.

  2. #17
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Hockeyfan - Yes, I remember the Pitchka explanation. I think that when these attempts happen in the future we should call it the 'Sasha Rule'.:D

    I do think the CoP needs some serious end-of season discussionons on this and so many other incidence that come up. I'm not exactly balled over for the giving falls credit for the jump with a -3 as the only penalty. So many of the guys are falling on their quads yet they get points anyway. To me, it is a failed jump. I don't think they should get any deduction; just a zero for a non jump. However, a deduction in the presentation should be taken.

    Nadine - Thanks for the kind words. It's easy to take an objective view of skating when you like the sport that much. It's even easier to change one's mind and admit being wrong. However, I am very guilty of being a Kwaniac and I just can't change . Btw, I did not originate anything about Danilenko but she is among the judges I am watching for favoritism - NOT collusion.

    Joe

  3. #18
    if one obviously has attempted & landed a triple or quadruple jump but didn't quite succeed on rotation - say a 1/4 or less underrotated - then don't call it something it was NOT meant to be
    If I'm not mistaken a jump is only downgraded if its 1/4 turn or MORE cheated. 1/4 or less it will be called what it is.

  4. #19
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    does anyone really believe that the Caller and his group can tell the difference between a 3/16th and a 5/16th difference from a perfect jump? I'm sorry, but I don't buy that.

    In Tennis, the Caller screams OUT, MacEnroe argues. The slo mo playback show MacEnroe right but the Caller won't change his mind.

    C'mon. We don't have to suck up the Caller's decisions.

    Joe

  5. #20
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    Thanks, hockeyfan228, for the added info......though the jury is still out for me on this one.......b/c I recall there being quite a bit of talk on the net (especially at SkateFans) about Yoshie Onda not receiving a similar benefit of the doubt at COR? when she lost to Elena Liashenko b/c of a technicality (ala judges didn't count her 3T-3T sequence nor 2A or something like that; waiting to see it for myself when it finally airs on t.v.). Anyhow, I tend to lean more toward Joesitz's POV, though that may be b/c I feel that the Top 3 (which includes Sasha IMHO) tend to get held up and the benefit of the doubt more often than not in close competitions. JMHO.

    BravesSkateFan, thanks for the info.......for some reason it doesn't seem like that........still think that falls should not be counted AT ALL and that jumps that are obvious quads or triples should be counted as such (if landed of course, not so falls), just take off on the GOE for whatever perceived underrotation there is. JMHO of couse.

    Joesitz, I apologize if you thought I somehow connected you with Russian Judge Tatiana Danileno.......I didn't........I did (meaning I'm the one that brought her up & is accusing her of such). Btw, I can't even begin to describe my real feelings toward her (can still see that smug expression on her face when the t.v. panned the judges panel at the 2002 Olympics, waiting to see Irina Slutskaya's marks). Last note, I think I read somewhere on the net where it was mentioned that she was or is married to the head of the Russian Figure Skating Association (Piseev)???

    By the way, Joesitz, just in case you get a big head (lol :D ) I wanted to add to my previous post.......I think your moniker fits your pic (ala Dick Button)........sometimes I find you extremely pompous, arrogant, sarcastic, dogmatic, and irritating. This from reading your posts for the past 2+ yrs.....though I've never said such on the net......but I've definitely felt it (as I'm sure others have felt while reading posts from various individuals over the net; lol ). But for some reason I find your posts compelling and I do, at times, learn from you (though I'd never admit it :o ). Also, I have to admit that Golden Skate in general reminds me of a clicque.....longtime posters, yada yada......same goes for the old FSW, SkateFans, RSSIF, et al. Yet there's that one individual that stands out amongst such clicques that I feel comfortable with and whom I feel I can be myself with. Anyhow, 'nuff said, thanks (in your own way) for making me feel welcome at this here country club, even if you didn't know you did so. (:^)

    Peace & Love, Nadine

    "there can be no peace without the truth." - Ludwig Van Beethoven
    Last edited by Nadine; 12-18-2003 at 10:35 PM.

  6. #21
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Nadine - I think it's my testosterone. I got my early training in arguing sports among my 'tough' friends growing up in Brooklyn. It was not easy being a figure skater in that group:( but I survived.

    Big head? Never - quite humble! A curmudgeon? Indeed! :o

    Figure skating is basically a feminine sport which was confirmed for me at the DC Worlds. I looked around the arena and it was easily 2 to 1, in favor of the females, and most of the men there were doing a favor for their wives or girlfriends.

    Golden Skate has a good mix of writers with special personalities. I enjoy the mix. However, the overwhelming style, imo, tends to be estrogenic.

    Cheers and peace and love, of course

    Joe
    Last edited by Joesitz; 12-19-2003 at 07:33 AM.

  7. #22
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nadine
    I recall there being quite a bit of talk on the net (especially at SkateFans) about Yoshie Onda not receiving a similar benefit of the doubt at COR? when she lost to Elena Liashenko b/c of a technicality (ala judges didn't count her 3T-3T sequence nor 2A or something like that; waiting to see it for myself when it finally airs on t.v.).
    First of all, you mean CoC. Indeed, her 3T and her 2A were not counted. I think (though I am not sure) that the reason is that she already did a 2T as a part of her 3Lz+2T combo (though the rules only mention triple and quad jumps, not doubles). Therefore, this was her 3d toe loop of the program.

    Then, her 2A was not counted because that was her 8th jump. Which is not very fair, because 2A is only the 8th jump if you count the 3T that was NOT counted. In other words, if she did 2A before the 3T, she would have gotten credit for it (3.3 base, with a positive GoE). Another frustrating thing was that on the 3T that she DID get credit for, her GoE was -1.6; the one that was NOT counted would have gotten a slightly positive GoE.

    And, just to convince everyone that it's not just the top skaters who get this "+COMBO" thing, if you look at the CoC Ladies FS scores, you see that Dan Fang got it for doing a second 3S; she also had her 2T not counted, since she already did a 2T as a part of combo, and a standalone 3T.

    Among men at CoC, Brian Joubert got the "+COMBO" thing, also for a 3S; Nicholas Yong got it for 3A and some French skater got it for 3S.

    Originally posted by Nadine
    Last note, I think I read somewhere on the net where it was mentioned that she was or is married to the head of the Russian Figure Skating Association (Piseev)???
    You are thinking of an ice skating judge, Alla Shehovtseva, widely considered the most corrupt judge (she is, indeed, married to Piseev). The rumors in Russia after the Grand Prix Final is that she made the deal -- Navka & Kostomarov would win the dance, and Plushy would loose in men. Personally, I think that's bull, but there you have it. OTOH, her "corruptness" is part of the reason nobody in Russia believed that in SLC there was a deal to have B&S get gold in pairs, and L&A to get silver in dance -- noone can imagine Shehovtseva agreeing to mark down a Russian dance team, especially the students of her good friend Lininchuk. (It is believed that Lininchuk became the official ice dance coach of the Russian Federation because of her close friendship with Piseev's Mrs.)
    Last edited by Ptichka; 12-20-2003 at 02:41 PM.

  8. #23
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Ptichka - You've just added a new judge for me to watch:(

    Joe

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