PSA seminar on "Skating Skills"

Discussions on Skating Skills have not led to their meaning. Suddenly we are bombarded with Patrick's Skating Skills which make up for his disasterous Falls in one competition.

The bullets for SS do not cover exactly what they are. Can we get an Official Definition of what Skating Skills are so we don't have to meander about it?

Are they connected to the turns of the School Figures, 3s, brackets, counters, rockers and loops? and is that all it's about? if not? what?

Are they the skaters' stroking, flow, musicality, diverse moves on ice showing the skills without tricks?

Are they tricks showing the skaters ability to execute them by definition?

It's time we move into the officialexplanation of what exactly Skating Skills are. We've had enough opinions.

semantics

Mathman said:

We have had several discussions about what the program component "Skating Skills" is supposed to mean, and why all the other components seem to key on this one.

Here is a very interesting report on a PSA seminar on the ISU judging system conducted recently by David Kirby, Judy Blumberg and David Santee (Liz Leamy, reporter, from George Rossano's site).

...

The five program components are compared to designing a car.

[The Skating Skills component is] like the engine of a car; the transitions are like the transmission and ought to be seamless; choreography is the body, shape and design; interpretation is the paint, lighting and chrome design; and performance and execution represent the wheels and brakes.

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http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/current/content/2010 PSA Conference IJS Seminar.htm

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The link to the article written by Liz Leamy is confusing. She keeps referring to Kirby's words as describing the creation/building of a skater/competitor, but it seems more correct that program components refer to, well, a program. I'm nitpicking on the semantics because if the program components are a simile for a car's engineering, I don't like it, because the analogy is static--it's not making room for the notion that a program will be different on paper compared to how it might be skated, and how it might be skated at one competition compared to another. What really makes me gag is how "performance and execution" are the wheels and brakes...ew! P/E are part of the art, not the technical...and a better metaphor would be to say they reflect how the car is actually driven. I am a little concerned that Kirby might have made the analogy for PCS and used this static concept, because I wonder if that explains why PCS do not vary very much for skaters across competitions even if they skated well or poorly...

However, I find the notion of skating skills being the "engine" of a skater interesting. Yeah, I would agree that much like a car, whose potential and class is mostly determined by the quality of its engine...an elite skater should have good skating skills. We've already had some examples of high-level skaters who did not, however, and it was usually on the basis of their other technical skills (usually their strong jumps.) So, what does that mean? Weaker engines can still be competitive due to the supercharging/turbocharging nature of difficult jumps? Supported by their aerodynamic choreography?

And the next question is, who is the McLaren F1 of figure skating? (the most beautifully designed, and fastest naturally aspirated production car, first produced in 1992 and still one of the fastest cars ever... They are not made anymore! )

Mathman said:

We have had several discussions about what the program component "Skating Skills" is supposed to mean, and why all the other components seem to key on this one.

Here is a very interesting report on a PSA seminar on the ISU judging system conducted recently by David Kirby, Judy Blumberg and David Santee (Liz Leamy, reporter, from George Rossano's site).

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/current/content/2010 PSA Conference IJS Seminar.htm

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[Although jumps and spins are still important] ultimately...these elements don’t mean a thing if a competitor cannot skate well, a situation that unfortunately seems to occur more often than one would actually expect. Marks instantly decline when a skater walks through their elements and viewers tend to lose interest, according to IJS officials [my emphasis]...

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I would agree with other posters here that "viewers" (fans, general audience, etc.) tend to be at least as interested in exciting tricks and charisma, body line, musicality as they are in skating skills -- even more so when the viewers are viewing on TV or on computer screens than when they're watching live. If the question was "How can we retain and gain general audiences to pay to watch our sport," then it would be important to emphasize those qualities.

I'm not sure that's what Leamy meant in summarizing the seminar with that phrase -- certainly she didn't add the emphasis on viewers that Mathman did -- and I don't think it was the focus of the seminar.

The PSA conference is an opportunity for coaches at all levels to network and learn from experts. Master coaches offer seminars for less experienced coaches on many topics related to coaching. In this case, the coaches presenting this seminar are also technical specialists and were offering insights based on that experience that coaches could use in preparing their students for success in competition.

They were not presenting themselves as marketing experts and offering advice on how to train skaters to attract more members of the general public as spectators. They were advising coaches on how to use the PCS to their students' advantage in competition.

Most of that would be competition at lower levels, with the expectation that few would ever reach a level of competition that would be televised.

Probably most of the coaches they were addressing have juvenile and intermediate competitors as the majority of their students who compete under IJS, with an occasional novice, junior, or senior.

Some of the most common mistakes that prohibit development of a fine-skilled skater include stiff knees, bending too far forward, pushing with toe picks, balancing on the incorrect part of the blade, using incomplete stroking edges and short jerky steps, skating in straight lines rather than using curves and edges and skating mostly on two feet rather than one. These characteristics, taken separately or as a collective whole, can prevent the development of a skater into a top contender in a major way...

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If it's true that those kinds of errors or weaknesses in skating technique "prevent the development of a skater into a top contender," that means that the general public never gets to see skaters in whom those weaknesses predominate. We can't give examples of skaters with weak skating skills on the absolute 0-10 scale and name names because those skaters have never been on TV.

Most senior-level skaters who don't make it to the free program at Worlds or get Grand Prix invitations earn Skating Skills scores in the 4s, 5s, and 6s, the green area on this chart. Most of the "world-class" skaters we see on TV earn SS scores in the 6s, 7s, and 8s, occasionally even 9s -- the yellow (gold) area on the chart. But the numbers of skaters anywhere in the world who deserves 8s or 9s will always be tiny compared to the total number of skaters -- those numbers represent exceptional quality, not expected of everyone.

So when we say that a famous skater has weak skating skills (by elite standards), we probably mean "below 6" or even "in the 6s" (above average for all skaters, but

I think Kirby's concern in these remarks was more with skaters whose skills would fall in the red area.

If they're already at senior level, already near the end of their development, and can't skate any better than 3-point-something, their skating skills are deficient for their competitive level, and that will show up in their scores and results. It's hard to land triple jumps or to present good body line or musical expression while still struggling to control the blades in basic skating.

If the skaters are still developing, then skating skills are one of the most important things they should be working on to be able to reach higher levels.


The other day when I was at the rink, there were a couple of skaters on the ice who were home from college for the holidays. A couple years ago they had been competing at junior or low-level senior internationals, but lately they've been studying and not training. They weren't doing double jumps, but they looked comfortable on the ice.

And another skater who wasn't doing freestyle at all but practicing junior(?) moves in the field and pregold compulsory dances.

There were also a number of teen and preteen skaters, preliminary through novice level, running their programs and practicing double jumps.

None of these skaters was anywhere near the level you would see on the Grand Prix or in the final groups of a large international competition. We're not talking about skating that anyone would charge money to viewers or to sponsors for the privilege of watching.

If you walked into that rink and became a viewer for that practice session, aside from the interest in watching the choreography of the program runthroughs, what do you think would catch your interest more? Fairly strong and nuanced skating, or weaker skating with so-so double jump attempts?

And if you were casting for ensemble skating roles (not featured stars) in a show like, say, Disney on Ice, would you be looking more at skating ability or jump repertoire?

Unless we admit the caption Skating Skills is a misnomer, we will continue to have our own personal opinion of what exactly they are. We will never be able to agree with judges or amongst ourselves.
All those ifs and examples do not say anything official but only what the writer thinks what Skating Skills are. Nothing wrong with that but most fans want to know EXACTLY what is being judged. Anything official on what Skating Skills are? Surely the creators of the CoP had something in mind. Obvious no fan knows. Do judges know?

Anything official on what Skating Skills are? Surely the creators of the CoP had something in mind. Obvious no fan knows.

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In the ISu Cop Bible it is written analytically about the program components and the skating skills part.
Components with explanations: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf

gkelly said:

None of these skaters was anywhere near the level you would see on the Grand Prix or in the final groups of a large international competition. We're not talking about skating that anyone would charge money to viewers or to sponsors for the privilege of watching.

If you walked into that rink and became a viewer for that practice session, aside from the interest in watching the choreography of the program runthroughs, what do you think would catch your interest more? Fairly strong and nuanced skating, or weaker skating with so-so double jump attempts?

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Actually, I have paid money to go to local club shows where I got a chance to see skaters at all levels, from toddlers who had to be carried onto the ice by their coaches, up to Alissa Czisny, Jeremy Abbott and Davis and White. I liked watching the middle level performers the best.

Also, I can go down to the public outdoor rink (for free) and watch people just skating with no jumps or anything like that. Some of them are pretty good. And once I saw Chock and Zuerlein there.

I felt that the main thrust of the report on the seminar was that the IJS is increasingly using program components, and especially the Skating Skills component, to separate the wheat from the chaff, rather than just jumps. "If you want to win stuff and be on TV, get your SS up to par."

The part about skating skills being the engine that drives the whole shebang, and in particular providing the foundation for advance technical tricks -- I though that was fairly obvious.

At the top levels, I have to admit I can go either way. Programs where the skater puts on a jump clinic -- one jump after another, building to a glorious climax and the devil take choreography and transitions -- that can be immensely thrilling. (Example: Michelle Kwan, Tosca, 2004 U.S. Nationals)

But if I want to leave the arena with tears in my eyes, I'll gladly take Alissa's show program with only one jump (a double Axel).

seniorita said:

In the ISu Cop Bible it is written analytically about the program components and the skating skills part.
Components with explanations: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf

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Thank you seniorita, I could not find my copy. It reads as if it is a general overview of the performance of a skater's competition program. Some of the criteria could easiy be considered Technical as well. Falls, apparently are overlooked in the skating skills category. It's a very 6.0 type of judgement which relies heavily on opinion. It is a critique of the skater's program in the many eyes of the judges. Some will see those knees bend; some will see how deep those edges are, some will see the variance of speed, etc., Some will just score it as enjoyable or not. That "one foot footwork will really get em". So much of this at the Senior Level is so unnessesary, imo.

I still think the category of Skating Skills should have a name change. It's much too confusing with the skills required for most other judgeable parts of figure skating which require a lot of skill.

SkateFiguring said:

Exactly my point again. The great Plushenko and Yagudin might be the standard of great SS of their time, but they don't meet today's standard at all.

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Plushenko and Yagudin were both products of the Soviet system and all the Soviet skaters had good Technique. I think most Russian Skaters of today also have that Technique especially in Ice Dance and Pairs. What Skating Skills as we know it, is all about is TECHNIQUE. Skating Skills could easily be renamed Technique, although it would get in trouble with the plus GoEs in the Tech part.

I really don't understand what the confusion is about Skating Skills, as I know you understand the sport very well Joe. The quality of a skaters edges; the ease and quality with which they execute turns, steps, and other moves in the field; how well the skater can change feet and skate in both directions; the amount of speed a skater can gain with as few crossovers as possible.

Blades of Passion said:

I really don't understand what the confusion is about Skating Skills, as I know you understand the sport very well Joe. The quality of a skaters edges; the ease and quality with which they execute turns, steps, and other moves in the field; how well the skater can change feet and skate in both directions; the amount of speed a skater can gain with as few crossovers as possible.

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Exactly, Blades - It's all in the skaters' How They Do or Did It. It's the skater's Technique which should be judged.

What I found confusing is that the name, skating skills can also apply to the elements; to footwork; to Interpretation. Apparently it is just what the criteria suggests.

Also at the Senior Level, the top 15-18 skaters should not have a problem with skating skills unless the skater is having one of those bad days.

On Skating Skills of an element, I am not happy in the SP to see skaters doing crossovers into high level jumps. Most are doing that for 2 big jumps. It's like "This is what I learned at practice". I even think this is a reflection in the PC criteria of skating skills.