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Thread: Ladies prospects

  1. #16
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    If being at the top of your game is skating cleanly Kostner has never once been on the top of her game her whole career. She is this generations Cohen just with way better jumps and basic skating but less spectacular highlight moves.

  2. #17
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    Carolina skated a flawless free program routine at 2003 Europeans, then again SP at 2003 Worlds, 2005 worlds were good skates, 2006 European free skate not bad, 2007 world SP brilliant (one of the best of all time).

    It is psychological with a lot of the skaters and it is so important these days for them to have a sports psychologist.

    A lot of talented skaters do not reach their full potential or to find regular consistency.

    But Injury or illness does play a part as well which does not help things.

  3. #18
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    Overall Carolina has had a good career so far. I have always been an artistic skater, I have no complaint about her PCS marks, a lot of people still see the sport as landing jumps. But like Katarina Witt once said "It is not all about jumps, the artistic side is just as important" Anyway I'm going off the subject from the start of the thread.

  4. #19
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    Carolina surprised me with her exquisite presentation at the GP Finals. Had the judges made her the winner over Alissa, I would not have complained.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Carolina surprised me with her exquisite presentation at the GP Finals. Had the judges made her the winner over Alissa, I would not have complained.
    Interestingly in that competition, all ladies save Rachael skated their FS so well that the final standings were determined by their SPs.

    2nd through 5th were spread across 1.66 points (117.12 to 115.46), and despite Miki's substantial lead over Kanako in the FS (122.70) she was trailing far enough behind that it didn't matter.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by russell30 View Post
    Carolina skated a flawless free program routine at 2003 Europeans, then again SP at 2003 Worlds, 2005 worlds were good skates, 2006 European free skate not bad, 2007 world SP brilliant (one of the best of all time).

    It is psychological with a lot of the skaters and it is so important these days for them to have a sports psychologist.

    A lot of talented skaters do not reach their full potential or to find regular consistency.

    But Injury or illness does play a part as well which does not help things.
    2005 Worlds was not a good skate. She blew every jump in the 2nd half of the program.
    She was able to eke out a washed up Kwan for the bronze, and benefited from Suguri's short program meltdown and Shizuka's poor competition.

    And I am not talking about short programs. Of course Carolina can occasionaly do a great short. However a great long never, except for the 2003 Europeans LP when she was a newbie with no pressure. Well 2008 GP final was a very good long, and 2009 GP final a decent one, but neither of them were clean. So a clean Carolina is a myth when her last clean long program with all the triples was 8 years ago now.

  7. #22
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    I think a clean Carolina can definitely compete with Yuna. I think the judges would be ready to give it to her if she ever really showed her full potential in competition. She has amazing skating skills (best in the ladies' field imo), good speed, perfect technique on her jumps and lovely programs. Of course with Carolina... you just never know! She is a headcase.

    I have seen her practice loads of times and there is no other single skater that impresses me more, not even Yuna (and I have seen her live a couple of times too). You rarely see mistakes by Carolina in practice, her jumps look supersmooth and easy. She does amazing combinations, I have seen her do 3flip3toe3loop, she still does 3flip3toe2loop and 3lutz3toe as well as 2axel3toe. And all those elements are super consistent in practice. Of course, practice is not competition and I know that.

    The only area - in my opinion - that Yuna is superior in is that she can handle pressure very well and that she doesn't let herself get affected by it. And that is something Carolina has never quite managed to control, causing her to be continually inconsistent in competition.

    We will see what the World Championships bring. I just wish Carolina could skate lights out and show everyone what she is made of.

    If anyone is interested, a new practice video clip from Europeans 2011 has recently been added to Carolina's official website: http://www.carolina-kostner.it/E-Euros2011lpractice.htm

    There is also a video of her 3flip3toe3loop combination online:
    http://www.carolina-kostner.it/E-multimedia.htm
    Last edited by jiggs; 02-14-2011 at 04:02 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggs View Post
    I think a clean Carolina can definitely compete with Yuna. I think the judges would be ready to give it to her if she ever really showed her full potential in competition. She has amazing skating skills (best in the ladies' field imo), good speed, perfect technique on her jumps and lovely programs. Of course with Carolina... you just never know! She is a headcase.

    I have seen her practice loads of times and there is no other single skater that impresses me more, not even Yuna (and I have seen her live a couple of times too). You rarely see mistakes by Carolina in practice, her jumps look supersmooth and easy. She does amazing combinations, I have seen her do 3flip3toe3loop, she still does 3flip3toe2loop and 3lutz3toe as well as 2axel3toe. And all those elements are super consistent in practice. Of course, practice is not competition and I know that.

    The only area - in my opinion - that Yuna is superior in is that she can handle pressure very well and that she doesn't let herself get affected by it. And that is something Carolina has never quite managed to control, causing her to be continually inconsistent in competition.

    We will see what the World Championships bring. I just wish Carolina could skate lights out and show everyone what she is made of.

    If anyone is interested, a new practice video clip from Europeans 2011 has recently been added to Carolina's official website: http://www.carolina-kostner.it/E-Euros2011lpractice.htm

    There is also a video of her 3flip3toe3loop combination online:
    http://www.carolina-kostner.it/E-multimedia.htm
    Flips look good, lutz is back, but probably not going to see it at Worlds. What I like about her is her speed. If she has Rachael Flatt's mentality, she would be unbeatable. Imagine a clean 7 triples LP from Carolina.

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    We could say that about a lot of skaters if they only they had Flatt's mentality. Mirai for instance. Sadly the one with that mentality is Rachel herself and it's never going to be enough. The skaters with the talent to be champions are the headcases while reliable Rachel will never be talented or good enough to be a World or Olympic champion.

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    At least Rachael knows she tried her best. She did everything she could to improve. Bravo Rachael.

  11. #26
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    I'm impressed with what Rachael has done and I don't think it's out of the question for her to become a world champ. She needs to have two great programs, set to two strong, emotional pieces of music, that she performs up the wazoo; two great costumes; and to get back her 3/3 (fully rotated). Of course she needs to do an Ina Bauer and a spread eagle at a musical climax in every program. She needs to keep the cute new haircut and make sure she keeps her weight down. All easier said than done, but all doable. And I think that now she's had a taste of the glory that comes from a great program, she knows what to ask for from her choreographer. The big question is whether she wants it badly enough to put off college again. She can't have two top priorities.

    ETA: I can't believe it, but I sound like more of a Flatt fan than Flattfan! I'm not, but I gotta give Rachael props where props are due.

  12. #27
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    All Rachael needs is like 5 or so people to have meltdowns, whcih has happened before in ladies competition, and she could become a world champion. Don't count anyone out; people probably said Maria Butyrskaya wouldn't become a world champion at the age of 26 either. I know she's not the same style of skater as Rachael at all, but still.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    All Rachael needs is like 5 or so people to have meltdowns, whcih has happened before in ladies competition, and she could become a world champion. Don't count anyone out; people probably said Maria Butyrskaya wouldn't become a world champion at the age of 26 either. I know she's not the same style of skater as Rachael at all, but still.
    Sorry but there are more than 5 skaters who would have to skate poorly for Rachael to beat them at Worlds. Kim, Asada, Ando, Murakami, Kostner, Korpi, Czisny, for sure so 7 at the very minimum. And people like Kim, Asada, and Ando would literally have to skate half the program on their butts (that is if Flatt skated lights out).

    And you cant compare Butyrskaya to Flatt. Butyrskaya was between 3rd to 5th at 6 straight Words, Olympics, or Grand Prix finals from 96-98, then came back into a very depleted field for the 98-99 season. She was 2 time reigning European Champion at the time of her Worlds triumph too, and with the weak field was 2nd favorite to Kwan going in.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I'm impressed with what Rachael has done and I don't think it's out of the question for her to become a world champ. She needs to have two great programs, set to two strong, emotional pieces of music, that she performs up the wazoo; two great costumes; and to get back her 3/3 (fully rotated). Of course she needs to do an Ina Bauer and a spread eagle at a musical climax in every program. She needs to keep the cute new haircut and make sure she keeps her weight down. All easier said than done, but all doable. And I think that now she's had a taste of the glory that comes from a great program, she knows what to ask for from her choreographer. The big question is whether she wants it badly enough to put off college again. She can't have two top priorities.
    I agree, I think she showed her grit this year, coming back from the injury and the poor showing at the Grand Prix Final. She will definitely need those 3/3 combos back with full rotation on all the jumps, but I think she still has potential to medal at worlds in the future. She showed great improvements on her spins this season as well as her footwork. Her new short shows that she has the soul of an artist and if she can get a free program that also shows those qualities, she could be in the running. I don't think her weight is a problem and I don't understand why people always harp on that...she is an elite athlete, not a ballerina.

  15. #30
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I'm impressed with what Rachael has done and I don't think it's out of the question for her to become a world champ. She needs to have two great programs, set to two strong, emotional pieces of music, that she performs up the wazoo; two great costumes; and to get back her 3/3 (fully rotated). Of course she needs to do an Ina Bauer and a spread eagle at a musical climax in every program. She needs to keep the cute new haircut and make sure she keeps her weight down. All easier said than done, but all doable. And I think that now she's had a taste of the glory that comes from a great program, she knows what to ask for from her choreographer. The big question is whether she wants it badly enough to put off college again. She can't have two top priorities.

    ETA: I can't believe it, but I sound like more of a Flatt fan than Flattfan! I'm not, but I gotta give Rachael props where props are due.
    Yes, at 4CC the judges were totally willing to give her competitive marks for her SP. They even put her in a position to win, theoretically.

    But with the FS it was sort of same old same old. She skated very well but her score lagged behind 1,2 and 3. I know Rachael had a couple of mistakes but still. I think it's also that her FS just doesn't sell and unfortunately highlights her weaknesses, like her spins.

    But the SP certainly gives one hope that Rachael can find the right vehicle. And I completely agree that she sort of found herself with that one and now knows what to ask from her choreographer. That's no small accomplishment. I think it's a feat to find yourself creatively and really have a hand in creating your programs.

    The ladies are generally so young - you get the feeling that many of them just do what their choreographer throws at them. That's the feeling I get from Mirai. Luckily for Mirai, she can pull off any choreo but I think she still needs to find her voice. She has a definite style in terms of the way she moves, but I think that's different from having a true voice.

    I don't think her weight is a problem and I don't understand why people always harp on that...she is an elite athlete, not a ballerina.
    I agree completely about Rachael's weight but, ahem. Have you ever checked out the muscles on ballerinas? They are elite athletes, too. :sheesh:
    Last edited by Layfan; 02-21-2011 at 11:14 PM.

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