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Thread: Quads Of The Season

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    Quads Of The Season

    So far this season, quads have been attempted and accomplished more than ever in competitions. This list doesn't include popped attempts.

    Quad Solos:

    Chan, SC LP...................4T 10.30 + 2.00 = 12.30
    Fernandez, SC LP...........4T 10.30 + 1.71 = 12.01
    Chan, GPF LP..................4T 10.30 + 1.29 = 11.59
    Hanyu, NHK LP................4T 10.30 + 1.20 = 11.50
    Schultheiss, SA LP...........4T 10.30 +1.00 = 11.30
    Takahashi, NHK LP...........4T 10.30 + 1.00 = 11.30
    Reynolds, SC LP..............4S 10.50 + 0.71 = 11.21
    Reynolds, TEB LP.............4S 10.50 +0.57 = 11.07
    Reynolds, SC SP..............4T 10.30 + 0.71 = 11.01
    Mroz COC LP...................4T 10.30 +0.43 = 10.73
    Van der Perren, SA LP......4T 10.30 +0.14 = 10.44
    Oda, SC LP......................4T 10.30 +0.00 = 10.30
    Van der Perren, NHK LP....4T 10.30 + 0.00 = 10.30
    Mura, NHK LP...................4T 10.30 + 0.00 = 10.30
    Mroz, TEB LP...................4T 10.30 -0.14 = 10.16
    kozuka, COC LP................4T 10.30 -1.00 = 9.30
    Gachinski, SC LP...............4T 10.30 -1.00 = 9.30
    kozuka, TEB LP.................4T 10.30 -1.29 = 9.01
    Fernandez, COR LP...........4T 10.30 -2,57 = 7.73
    Chan, SC SP....................4T 10.30 -3.00 = 7.30
    Oda, SA LP......................4T 10.30 -3.00 = 7.30
    Guan, COC SP..................4T 10.30 -3.00 = 7.30
    Guan, COC LP...................4T 10.30 -3.00 = 7.30
    Gachinski, SC SP...............4T+COMBO 10.30 -3.00 = 7.30
    Machida, COC LP...............4T 10.30 -3.00 = 7.30
    JOUBERT, COC LP..............4T< 7.20 -1.00 = 6.20
    Chan, GPF SP....................4T< 7.20 -1.14 = 6.06
    Kozuka, GPF LP..................4T< 7.20 -1.57 = 5.63
    Machida, COR LP...............4T< 7.20 - 2.14 = 5.06
    Chan, COR........................4T< 7.20 -3.00 = 4.20
    Abbott, COR LP..................4T< 7.20 -3.00 = 4.20
    Preaubert, COR LP.............4T< 7.20 -3.00 =4.20
    Reynolds,TEB SP................4T< 7.20 -3.00 = 4.20
    Reynolds, TEB LP................4T< 7.20 -3.00 = 4.20
    Oda, GPF LP.......................4T< 7.20 -3.00 = 4.20
    Takahashi, GPF LP..............4F<< 5.30 -1.80 = 3.50
    Carriere, SA LP..................4T<< 4.10 -2.10 = 2.00

    Quad Combinations

    Oda, GPF SP......................4T+3T 14.40 +2.29 = 16.69
    Chan, COR SP....................4T+3T 14.40 +1.86 = 16.26
    Mura, NHK SP....................4T+3T 14.40 +1.14 = 15.54
    Reynolds SC SP..................4S+3T 14.6- +0.71 = 15.31
    Reynolds, SC LP................4T+3T 14.40 + 0.71 = 15.11
    Joubert, COC SP................4T+3T 14.40 +0.71 = 15.11
    Besseghier TEB SP.............4T+3T 14.40 +0.71 = 15.11
    Mroz, COC SP....................4T+3T 14.40 +0.00 = 14.40
    Mroz, TEB SP.....................4T+3T 14.40 -1.00 = 13.40
    Menshov, COR SP...............4T+2T 11.70 +0.71 = 12.41
    Gachinski, COR SP..............4T+2T 11.70 +0.43 = 12.13
    Reynolds, TEB SP................4S<+3T 11.50 -1.14 = 10.36
    Voronov, COC SP.................4T+1T 10.70 -3.00 = 7.70
    Joubert, TEB SP........../.......4T<+1T 7.60 -3.00 = 4.60
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 02-04-2011 at 12:41 AM.

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    Chan has the highest scoring solo quad and second highest combo quad! What a rule change can do! Am I right?! Oda did have absolutely one of the best 4/3's I have seen done.

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    Next to Reynolds, Chan has had the highest number of attempts. Their quads therefore appear at both the top and the bottom of the list. But they were all credited.

    Rule change is only one of the factors for all these quads. It takes time to learn, develop and get the quads consistent for competition. It just shows that athletes do want to challenge themselves and to strive for the next level. New rules simply encourage them to put it out there in the competition. It's the COP babies coming of age.

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    These new rules or anti lysacek revsions were major encouragements. Maybe they would have happened anyway but now one can never know. But certainly with Oda he had quads in 2008-2009 - removed them for 2009-2010- there was the rule change - now they are back for 2010-2011.

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    Personally, I do not like the word attempt. The Quad is a trick just like all the other official skating jumps albeit harder for some. What I would like to see, if someone can do it is:

    1. List all Skaters who can do more than 1 quad easily.
    2. List all Skaters who can do l quad easily.
    3. List all Skaters who can do a 3A and a quad easily.

    (I used the term 'easily' rather than consistently, but I believe we are approaching consistent quads this year.)
    Last edited by Joesitz; 01-01-2011 at 08:30 PM.

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    There are more quads than that if you count the Senior B competitions.

    http://thequadjump.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by Nena; 01-01-2011 at 08:38 PM.

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    Update

    Solo Quads

    Chan, CA NAT LP............4T 10.30 + 2.83 = 13.13
    Chan, CA NAT SP............4T 10.30 + 2.17 = 12.47
    Chan, SC LP...................4T 10.30 + 2.00 = 12.30
    Fernandez, SC LP............4T 10.30 + 1.71 = 12.01
    Chan, GPF LP..................4T 10.30 + 1.29 = 11.59
    Fernandez, Euro LP..........4T 10.30 + 1.29 = 11.59
    Van der Perren, Euro LP...4T 10.30 + 1.29 = 11.59
    Hanyu, NHK LP................4T 10.30 + 1.20 = 11.50
    Schultheiss, SA LP...........4T 10.30 +1.00 = 11.30
    Takahashi, NHK LP...........4T 10.30 + 1.00 = 11.30
    Verner, Euro LP...............4T 10.30 + 1.00 = 11.30
    Reynolds, SC LP..............4S 10.50 + 0.71 = 11.21
    Menshov, Euro LP............4T 10.30 + 0.86 = 11.16
    Reynolds, TEB LP.............4S 10.50 + 0.57 = 11.07
    Gachinski, Euro LP............4T 10.30 + 0.71 = 11.01
    Reynolds, SC SP..............4T 10.30 + 0.71 = 11.01
    Mroz COC LP...................4T 10.30 + 0.43 = 10.73
    Joubert, Euro LP..............4T 10.30 + 0.29 = 10.59
    Van der Perren, SA LP......4T 10.30 + 0.14 = 10.44
    Mura, NHK LP...................4T 10.30 + 0.00 = 10.30
    Oda, SC LP.....................4T 10.30 + 0.00 = 10.30
    Van der Perren, NHK LP.....4T 10.30 + 0.00 = 10.30
    Mroz, TEB LP...................4T 10.30 - 0.14 = 10.14
    Besseghier, Fr NAT LP.......4T 10.30 -0.33 = 9.97
    Gachinski, SC LP...............4T 10.30 - 1.00 = 9.30
    kozuka, COC LP................4T 10.30 - 1.00 = 9.30
    Messing, US NAT LP..........4T 10.30 - 1.00 = 9.30
    Reynolds, CA NAT SP........4T 10.30 - 1.00 = 9.30
    kozuka, TEB LP.................4T 10.30 -1.29 = 9.01
    Bradley, US NAT LP...........4T 10.30 - 2.43 = 7.87
    Reynolds, CA NAT LP.........4T 10.30 -2.50 = 7.80
    Fernandez, COR LP............4T 10.30 - 2,57 = 7.73
    Machida JP NAT LP............4T 10.30 - 2.60 = 7.70
    Verner, CZ NAT LP.............4T 10.30 - 2.75 = 7.55
    Chan, SC SP....................4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Gachinski, SC SP...............4T+C 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Guan, COC SP..................4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Guan, COC LP...................4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Kozuka, JP NAT LP............4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Machida, COC LP...............4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Oda, JP NAT SP................4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Oda, JP NAT LP................4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    Oda, SA LP......................4T 10.30 - 3.00 = 7.30
    JOUBERT, COC LP...............4T< 7.20 - 1.00 = 6.20
    Schultheiss, Euro LP...........4T< 7.20 -1.00 = 6.20
    Chan, GPF SP....................4T< 7.20 - 1.14 = 6.06
    Kozuka, GPF LP..................4T< 7.20 - 1.57 = 5.63
    Machida, COR LP................4T< 7.20 - 2.14 = 5.06
    Murakami JP NAT LP............4S< 7.40 - 3.00 = 4.40
    Mroz, UA NAT LP.................4T< 7.20 - 2.86 = 4.34
    Abbott, COR LP...................4T< 7.20 - 3.00 = 4.20
    Chan, COR LP......................4T< 7.20 - 3.00 = 4.20
    Oda, GPF LP.......................4T< 7.20 - 3.00 = 4.20
    Preaubert FR NAT LP............4T< 7.20 -3.00 = 4.20
    Preaubert, COR LP...............4T< 7.20 - 3.00 =4.20
    Reynolds,TEB SP.................4T< 7.20 - 3.00 = 4.20
    Reynolds, TEB LP.................4T< 7.20 - 3.00 = 4.20
    Vasicek, CZ NAT LP ............4T< 7.20 - 3.00 = 4.20
    Takahashi, GPF LP...............4F<< 5.30 - 1.80 = 3.50
    Takahashi, JP NAT LP...........4F<< 5.30 -1.82 = 3.48
    Carriere, SA LP....................4T<< 4.10 - 2.10 = 2.00

    Quad Combinations

    Oda, GPF SP......................4T+3T 14.40 + 2.29 = 16.69
    Chan, CA NAT LP................4T+3T+C 14.40 + 2.00 = 16.40
    Chan, COR SP....................4T+3T 14.40 + 1.86 = 16.26
    Gachinski, Euro SP..............4T+3T 14.40 + 1.29 = 15.69
    KVDP, Euro SP...................4T+3T 14.40 + 1.29 = 15.69
    Mura, NHK SP....................4T+3T 14.40 + 1.14 = 15.54
    Reynolds SC SP..................4S+3T 14.6 + 0.71 = 15.31
    Besseghier TEB SP..............4T+3T 14.40 + 0.71 = 15.11
    Joubert, COC SP.................4T+3T 14.40 + 0.71 = 15.11
    Reynolds, SC LP..................4T+3T 14.40 + 0.71 = 15.11
    Bradley, US NAT SP.............4T+3T 14.40 + 0.57 = 14.97
    Mroz, COC SP.....................4T+3T 14.40 + 0.00 = 14.40
    Mroz, TEB SP......................4T+3T 14.40 - 1.00 = 13.40
    Menshov, Euro LP................4T+2T 11.70 + 1.14 = 12.84
    Menshov, COR SP................4T+2T 11.70 + 0.71 = 12.41
    Gachinski, COR SP................4T+2T 11.70 + 0.43 = 12.13
    Mroz, NAT SP......................4T+2T 11.70 - 0.71 = 10.99
    Joubert, Euro SP..................4T+2T 11.70 - 1.29 = 10.41
    Joubert, FR Nat SP...............4T+2T 11.70 - 1.33 = 10.37
    Reynolds, TEB SP.................4S<+3T 11.50 - 1.14 = 10.36
    Voronov, COC SP.................4T+1T 10.70 - 3.00 = 7.70
    Reynolds, CA NAT SP............4S<+2T+C 8.80 - 2.00 = 6.80
    Bradley, US NAT LP...............4T + seq 8.24 -2.43 = 5.81
    Joubert, TEB SP....................4T<+1T 7.60 - 3.00 = 4.60
    Schultheiss, Euro SP......,.......4T<+combo 7.20 - 3.00 = 4.20

    (Edited to list ties alphbetically.)

    Note: I'm unable to find the protocols for Russian Nationals, only the Results. If someone could help..............

    Also, glancing through all the Men's LP protocols, I find Japan indisputably has the deepest field in Men's. Sorry, Scott.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 02-04-2011 at 12:43 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Personally, I do not like the word attempt. The Quad is a trick just like all the other official skating jumps albeit harder for some. What I would like to see, if someone can do it is:

    1. List all Skaters who can do more than 1 quad easily.
    2. List all Skaters who can do l quad easily.
    3. List all Skaters who can do a 3A and a quad easily.

    (I used the term 'easily' rather than consistently, but I believe we are approaching consistent quads this year.)
    I'm with you.

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    "Easily" and "Consistently" are both subjective and undefined. Also, popped quads are not included here as they are listed as 3T, 2T and 1T in the protocols and it's one's guess if they are "attempts". I simply list all credited quads and one can come to one's own conclusion from analysing the data.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Also, glancing through the Japanese Men's LP protocols, I find Japan indisputably has the deepest field in Men's. Sorry, Scott.
    Er, did you look through the US men's protocols, too? Since we're talking quads...

    In the Japanese nationals FS, 5 out of 24 skaters attempted 5 quads. None of the attempts were successful. In the US nationals, 4 out of 22 skaters attempted 5 quads, none of the attempts were successful.

    Let's look at the other big kahuna jump, the 3axel. In the Japanese nationals, 24 3axels were attempted, same number for the US (and I am too lazy to go count up how many were successful or how many skaters attempted them).

    But what really tells the tale are the deductions. The Japanese men had 18 falls among them, the Americans, 12. The falls from the Japanese came from higher ranked skaters, 7 falls among the top 10, with 4 falls from the podium finishers! Whereas Americans had only 2 falls among the top 10, and 3 from the second to last place finisher who really skewed the stats (damn you Joshua Farris).

    But falls aren't the only mistakes at Japanese nationals. In the FS, only Takahito Mura skated a perfect program, where no element got a negative GOE from the majority of judges (what negative GOE he got from no more than two judges per element which were thrown out anyway by the system of score pruning). Among the US men, this is true of 4 skaters (Dornbush, Miner, Armin and of course Jason Brown). All of them skated perfect programs.

    And if you actually watched both competitions, like I did, the Japanese nationals was a major splatfest, while the American nationals had back to back perfect skates that gave the audience quite a workout with all those standing ovations.

    Scott and Sandra may be personae non gratae among skate fans, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And they were right about the US men showing more depth.

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    Re field depth, I wasn't talking just about quads. And I was "glancing" through all the protocols. What was noticeable was that the Japanese men have higher value elements down through the line. I was not talking about how many quads or falls or just about the top men.

    My personal opinion about the US men's field is that it's deep in the 2nd tier. It's undeniable that Japan has the deepest field in the top tier.

    As far as quads are concerned, from the data I gathered here, US quads are few and low in quality, unlike the European. Japan has more quads but they are not the best either. Interesting Oda has the best quad combo but his solo quads has low success rate, by that I mean full rotations with at least 0.00 GOE. By that measure, Joubert is also pretty low in quad ranking.

    Also, except for Chan, the most successful quad jumpers are not the top tier skaters or Worlds' podium contenders. It goes to show quads are still not the best indicator of the level of skating or competitiveness.

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    But the point is they don't have higher valued elements. I don't know what protocols you looked at. The same number of quads and 3axels were attempted at both nationals, and skaters in both fields try for a full complement of triples whenever possible. At that level of skating, it is quads, 3axels, consistency and PCS that separate the skaters. The quads and 3axels are a virtual tie across the two nationals, but in consistency clearly the American men win. As for PCS, that's beyond the scope of looking at technical elements and not really comparable between competitions.

    And I was wrong about Takahito Mura having a perfect skate. He doubled his quad attempted, singled a loop and doubled a 3sal (all without incurring any negative GOE, however), thus his relatively low placement in the rankings. In other words, none of the Japanese men skated perfectly in the long program at their nationals. Among the Americans, however, 4 skaters actually skated all their planned elements perfectly, including the 2 at the top of the score sheet.

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    Let's let the World Championship decide.

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    The Japanese Men are stronger at the top but in terms of overall depth of the field, U.S. is the strongest.

  15. #15
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Let's let the World Championship decide.
    That's not a good test of the depth of a nation's skate program in a discipline, since at most a nation can only send 3 competitors per discipline. It would be ludicrous to suggest that the top 3 American men are the best in the world. I would say that the top 10 American men currently can go up against the top 10 of any other country and win. But that's not what the world championships are about.

    Rather this is something that shows over the long term, across many competitions with different competitors. One example I raised before is that American junior men won exactly 1/3rd of all the medals awarded at the 2010-2011 junior grand prix circuit (divided among 5 skaters). That shows a very promising upcoming bench there. In the same season, Russian girls won over 1/3rd (9 out of 24) of all the medals awarded at the junior grand prix circuit (also divided among 5 skaters). And no one disputes that Russia has an incredible upcoming field in ladies.

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