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Thread: Past Programs that would be competitive today

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Past Programs that would be competitive today

    Several threads got me thinking...which past programs do you think would've been competitive (not necessarily winning, but perhaps placing in the top three/final group material) today?

    I'll start with some ladies:

    Midori Ito- Scheherazade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hupxBUve6Q
    Michelle Kwan- Red Violin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptj_tO7tIXg
    Tanja Szewczenko- Speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj9q7UOqwQ8
    Tonya Harding- Jurassic Park (Yes, that one): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGkw4Vq1LYA
    Kristi Yamaguchi- Malaguena (including a fully-rotated 3Z/3T!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozwFZ5NoNs
    Irina Slutskaya- The Cards?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zek69FhRfBc
    Vanessa Gusmeroli- Legends of the Fall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HtaOft_Nbk

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    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Kurt Browning's Casablanca - I mean it's used as an example for ISU judges right?

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    Custom Title dwiggin3's Avatar
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    Tonya- Really?

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    I definitely agree with all of the OP choices here except for this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Tonya Harding- Jurassic Park (Yes, that one): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGkw4Vq1LYA
    OK it was good but only 4 clean triples (a 5th two footed one), no combinations, even if the jumps she did were HUGE and awesome and should get very high GOE. Also not very difficult spins, footwork, or spirals. And not very good artistry at all.

    I mean maybe if it was this season so far she would do really well with that but any of the last 4 seasons definitely not.

    Now this is the Harding that could kick *** today:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQXBXmjumU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdC5G7CDvbI

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    Shoe Diva
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    People forget just how awesome a skater Tonya actually was... for me, the saddest part of the Whack is just how unnecessary it was... Nancy K may have been the ideal US champ, but what a headcase! And who in their right mind ever believed that USFSA would send a 12 year old Michelle Kwan to the Olympics? I mean, really?

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife View Post
    People forget just how awesome a skater Tonya actually was... for me, the saddest part of the Whack is just how unnecessary it was... Nancy K may have been the ideal US champ, but what a headcase! And who in their right mind ever believed that USFSA would send a 12 year old Michelle Kwan to the Olympics? I mean, really?
    The only whack that was necessary that year was for a sports shrink to whack Tonya on the head and convince her that she could compete (and beat) Nancy. What I liked about 1993/1994 was Tonya was actually holding moves longer. She got rid of music that sounded like soundtracks for adult films, and was skating to powerful music that not only fit her, but was deemed acceptable by the establishment. Had the whack not happened, Tonya may have not skated as poorly in the OP, and maybe she had gone to Worlds instead of Nicole.

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    Tonya though wasnt any threat to Nancy by 94. Yes I agree she was easily a more talented skater than Nancy. However Tonya by then wasnt able to do the triple axel anymore, wasnt doing as much jump content as Nancy, obviously Nancy was going to get by far the higher artistic marks unless Tonya did a triple axel, and Nancy had been having far better results since early 92 and had the USFSA backing head and shoulders above Tonya. Add to that Nancy was in the best shape of her career in 93/94 which she had showed at the Pre Olympic event where she beat almost all the top skaters and at the Olympics to come, Tonya was never going to be the U.S #1 at that point except with Nancy out of the way. The thing is clubbing Nancy was never going to make Tonya a real contender for the Olympics that year which she wasnt either way, so it was pointless nonetheless.

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    Midori Ito

    the first triple lutz should get a +3 GOE
    the triple axel should also get a +3 GOE
    the spread eagle into the triple loop should also get a +3 GOE
    the 3T-3T combo in the second half of the program gets an automatic 10% bonus + at least +2 GOE.

    Her TES is probably higher than 80 by today standard. Enough to medal in the men Olympics last year.

    I have never seen triple lutz and axel being executed that well. look at the delay on the lutz. I don't even see guys doing better lutz. Most are inferior.

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    There's no way that Harding's performance at the 94 Nationals with all its flaws would do well under the current judging system. I do agree with Button that she was a very mature skater (in the good sense) and I do think that would be recognized today in the PCS, but that performance would not have received a high TES due to several jumping mistakes and the level of difficulty of some of the other elements (something that still would have been true even if the program had been executed flawlessly). Oh, and personally, I think the choreography was awful. (But that's obviously a PCS consideration.)
    Last edited by MrScroogeMcDuck; 01-04-2011 at 03:28 PM.

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    I see where you're coming from, but a big part of the issues with Tonya's 94 program was the Whack. If she'd just skated her programs and focused on what she needed to do, she would've been fine. Allowing her husband and his cronies convince her that she needed extra "help" to win obviously wrecked havock on her psyche and it showed in her skating. Blue Dog is right - if she'd surrounded herself with positive people wanting positive things for her, there is a possibilty that Tonya would be a celebrated US skater vs becoming the nefarious character she's become. And for what? To prove she could be Nancy Kerrigan? Please. What a waste of talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Midori Ito

    Both Ito and Harding were born too early, IMO. The Universe can be so unfair sometimes.

  12. #12
    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    It's not a prgram, but ...

    One of the moves Peggy Fleming did was a spread eagle into a double axel out into another spread eagle. That would get points in this system, no?

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    It's not a prgram, but ...

    One of the moves Peggy Fleming did was a spread eagle into a double axel out into another spread eagle. That would get points in this system, no?
    Yes--Shen and Zhao used to do this move side by side.

  14. #14
    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    ^^WHAT. I am confused/perplexed/saddened as to how I would've missed this! D: Well, time to watch old performances!

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Midori Ito

    the first triple lutz should get a +3 GOE
    the triple axel should also get a +3 GOE

    Her TES is probably higher than 80 by today standard. Enough to medal in the men Olympics last year.


    Her triple axel makes me want to cry. That's how you do a triple axel, Mr. Current OGM.
    Last edited by aftertherain; 01-04-2011 at 04:33 PM.

  15. #15
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    What really boggles me about the Whack is how Tonya thought she wouldn't get caught!

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