Past Programs that would be competitive today | Golden Skate

Past Programs that would be competitive today

blue dog

blue dog

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Several threads got me thinking...which past programs do you think would've been competitive (not necessarily winning, but perhaps placing in the top three/final group material) today?

I'll start with some ladies:

Midori Ito- Scheherazade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hupxBUve6Q
Michelle Kwan- Red Violin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptj_tO7tIXg
Tanja Szewczenko- Speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj9q7UOqwQ8
Tonya Harding- Jurassic Park (Yes, that one): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGkw4Vq1LYA
Kristi Yamaguchi- Malaguena (including a fully-rotated 3Z/3T!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozwFZ5NoNs
Irina Slutskaya- The Cards?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zek69FhRfBc
Vanessa Gusmeroli- Legends of the Fall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HtaOft_Nbk
 
Tonichelle

Tonichelle

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Kurt Browning's Casablanca - I mean it's used as an example for ISU judges right? :laugh:
 
P

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
I definitely agree with all of the OP choices here except for this one:

blue dog said:
Tonya Harding- Jurassic Park (Yes, that one): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGkw4Vq1LYA
Click to expand...

OK it was good but only 4 clean triples (a 5th two footed one), no combinations, even if the jumps she did were HUGE and awesome and should get very high GOE. Also not very difficult spins, footwork, or spirals. And not very good artistry at all.

I mean maybe if it was this season so far she would do really well with that but any of the last 4 seasons definitely not.

Now this is the Harding that could kick *** today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQXBXmjumU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdC5G7CDvbI
 
K

Kwanford Wife

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People forget just how awesome a skater Tonya actually was... for me, the saddest part of the Whack is just how unnecessary it was... Nancy K may have been the ideal US champ, but what a headcase! And who in their right mind ever believed that USFSA would send a 12 year old Michelle Kwan to the Olympics? I mean, really?
 
blue dog

blue dog

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Kwanford Wife said:
People forget just how awesome a skater Tonya actually was... for me, the saddest part of the Whack is just how unnecessary it was... Nancy K may have been the ideal US champ, but what a headcase! And who in their right mind ever believed that USFSA would send a 12 year old Michelle Kwan to the Olympics? I mean, really?
Click to expand...

The only whack that was necessary that year was for a sports shrink to whack Tonya on the head and convince her that she could compete (and beat) Nancy. What I liked about 1993/1994 was Tonya was actually holding moves longer. She got rid of music that sounded like soundtracks for adult films, and was skating to powerful music that not only fit her, but was deemed acceptable by the establishment. Had the whack not happened, Tonya may have not skated as poorly in the OP, and maybe she had gone to Worlds instead of Nicole.
 
P

pangtongfan

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Tonya though wasnt any threat to Nancy by 94. Yes I agree she was easily a more talented skater than Nancy. However Tonya by then wasnt able to do the triple axel anymore, wasnt doing as much jump content as Nancy, obviously Nancy was going to get by far the higher artistic marks unless Tonya did a triple axel, and Nancy had been having far better results since early 92 and had the USFSA backing head and shoulders above Tonya. Add to that Nancy was in the best shape of her career in 93/94 which she had showed at the Pre Olympic event where she beat almost all the top skaters and at the Olympics to come, Tonya was never going to be the U.S #1 at that point except with Nancy out of the way. The thing is clubbing Nancy was never going to make Tonya a real contender for the Olympics that year which she wasnt either way, so it was pointless nonetheless.
 
F

FlattFan

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Midori Ito

the first triple lutz should get a +3 GOE
the triple axel should also get a +3 GOE
the spread eagle into the triple loop should also get a +3 GOE
the 3T-3T combo in the second half of the program gets an automatic 10% bonus + at least +2 GOE.

Her TES is probably higher than 80 by today standard. Enough to medal in the men Olympics last year.

I have never seen triple lutz and axel being executed that well. look at the delay on the lutz. I don't even see guys doing better lutz. Most are inferior.
 
M

MrScroogeMcDuck

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Feb 17, 2010
There's no way that Harding's performance at the 94 Nationals with all its flaws would do well under the current judging system. I do agree with Button that she was a very mature skater (in the good sense) and I do think that would be recognized today in the PCS, but that performance would not have received a high TES due to several jumping mistakes and the level of difficulty of some of the other elements (something that still would have been true even if the program had been executed flawlessly). Oh, and personally, I think the choreography was awful. (But that's obviously a PCS consideration.)
 
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K

Kwanford Wife

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I see where you're coming from, but a big part of the issues with Tonya's 94 program was the Whack. If she'd just skated her programs and focused on what she needed to do, she would've been fine. Allowing her husband and his cronies convince her that she needed extra "help" to win obviously wrecked havock on her psyche and it showed in her skating. Blue Dog is right - if she'd surrounded herself with positive people wanting positive things for her, there is a possibilty that Tonya would be a celebrated US skater vs becoming the nefarious character she's become. And for what? To prove she could be Nancy Kerrigan? Please. What a waste of talent.
 
aftertherain

aftertherain

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It's not a prgram, but ...

One of the moves Peggy Fleming did was a spread eagle into a double axel out into another spread eagle. That would get :thumbsup: points in this system, no?
 
blue dog

blue dog

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aftertherain said:
It's not a prgram, but ...

One of the moves Peggy Fleming did was a spread eagle into a double axel out into another spread eagle. That would get :thumbsup: points in this system, no?
Click to expand...

Yes--Shen and Zhao used to do this move side by side.
 
aftertherain

aftertherain

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^^WHAT. I am confused/perplexed/saddened as to how I would've missed this! D: Well, time to watch old performances!

FlattFan said:
Midori Ito

the first triple lutz should get a +3 GOE
the triple axel should also get a +3 GOE

Her TES is probably higher than 80 by today standard. Enough to medal in the men Olympics last year.
Click to expand...

:):biggrin::thumbsup:

Her triple axel makes me want to cry. That's how you do a triple axel, Mr. Current OGM.
 
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B

blue_idealist

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Well, she didn't really get away with it totally. She was banned from the ISU, and I don't think was successful in any venue after her skating career ended.
 
Tonichelle

Tonichelle

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blue_idealist said:
Well, she didn't really get away with it totally. She was banned from the ISU, and I don't think was successful in any venue after her skating career ended.
Click to expand...

I meant legally. And AFAIK she was only banned by the USFSA, not the ISU... just no other country would take her, and the big name professionals wouldn't work with her - boycotting any show that wanted to have her be a part of it.

However, she still won her civil suit that allowed her to skate at the olympics... and she still pulled her shenanigans there possibly costing other skaters a chance... not just Michelle Kwan, but Josee Chouinard's preparation time for her LP (granted neither one would have been on the podium in all likelihood, still...)


Sorry, growing up I wanted to be like Tonya. The little 9 year old Tonichelle had her faith crushed in an instant over that mess in 1994.
 
mycelticblessing

mycelticblessing

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Hmm..
Back to topic. I have never seen Gusmeroli skate, ever. And I was glad I saw it, because I really loved the soundtrack to legend of the fall. Personally, I find it hard to decide if programs of the past would be competitive today, though some of her moves were amazing (is she the only one to do that split on the ice in the middle of her program?!) I always liked watching skaters spin in both directions.
One thing though, her jumps seem a little "muscled?" Her jumping style sorts of resembles Leonova to me.
 
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