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Thread: Which Skater will go to the Qualis for Japan?

  1. #46
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    There are a few posters here who get very upset when the rules of the game are not followed by the organizers, but it happens and often.

    The Japanese Federation, like ALL Federations are very protective of their appearance. They knew the new system of the quali round and knew one of their top skaters had to qualify a third skater for Japan - not for an individual (as Mrs. P pointed out). It's strictly Federation business. So they announced the Team for 4CC minus Oda. He obviously will be at the quali round.

    It's all about a Federation which cares about a Team being strong.

    I believe they could have sent Hanyu to the quali and Oda would be left out of the Worlds. NO? Who would object officially?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I believe they could have sent Hanyu to the quali and Oda would be left out of the Worlds. NO? Who would object officially?
    Leaving Oda out of Worlds?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #48
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I believe they could have sent Hanyu to the quali and Oda would be left out of the Worlds.
    Joe, you keep talking about "quali" as if this were some kind of competition that federations send skaters to.

    Yes, the Japanese Federation could have sent Hanyu to Worlds instead of Oda. But the Japanese Federation chose to go with number one, number two and number three at Japanese nationals. No games, no tricks.

    Same with ladies. They could have sent Suziki (the number two ranked lady in the world, after Yu-na Kim). But they went with number one, number two and number three at Japanese Nationals. No tricks, no games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    There are a few posters here who get very upset when the rules of the game are not followed by the organizers, but it happens and often.
    I am not sure what you mean here. The National Federations always follow the rules of the ISU, as the Japanese Federation did in this instance

  4. #49
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Which is why I say Oda. He was the one who messed up at Worlds last year, and Kozuka's had better results that him so far this season. Dai has been skating worse than both of them this season but he is injured and the reigning world champ. Plus, Oda's the only reason why one of them even has to do the qualifying round and making him do it will teach him not to mess up like that again.


    Yes but the spots are not personal reservations for skaters, it is country´ s spots. The third ranked skater should go to Q round now. I dont know how it is possible for the federation to choose the skater that will skate the q round.

    I dont think it is that complicated, it is all about maths. If you see world rankings Kozuka cannot pass Oda even if he wins at 4CC and uses this score cause he has to drop this way another championship´ s score, from 09-10 season.

    What JF made by sending Dai and Kozu instead of Kozuka and Oda for example, was to make sure that Dai wont be in the Q round, cause Dai for his ranking so far he uses the marks from one championship only (Worlds 2010) so no matter what he will use 4cc score, Kozu cannot pass Dai either this way _as long as Dai skates in 4cc-but he can improve his ranking. But they didnt do it to punish Oda and send him to Q round, probably they wanted to boost the other two rankings and so they sent Oda to Universiade.

    I m a Hanyu potential uber and a big Kozu fan but I dont agree that they need to exclude Oda from the team because he messed the Worlds a season ago. It is as logical as not sending Abott to Worlds because he messed the Olympics. Besides Oda has skated pretty well this season, and according to ISU that uses the ranking from the last 2 seasons plus the current one, he is the highest ranked skater of the three (probably Dai will pass him by 4cc) so he wont go to Q round.
    Last edited by seniorita; 01-06-2011 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #50
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Yes but the spots are not personal reservations for skaters, it is country´ s spots. The third ranked skater should go to Q round now. I dont know how it is possible for the federation to choose the skater that will skate the q round.

    I dont think it is that complicated, it is all about maths. If you see world rankings Kozuka cannot pass Oda even if he wins at 4CC and uses this score cause he has to drop this way another championship´ s score, from 09-10 season.

    What JF made by sending Dai and Kozu instead of Kozuka and Oda for example, was to make sure that Dai wont be in the Q round, cause Dai for his ranking so far he uses the marks from one championship only (Worlds 2010) so no matter what he will use 4cc score, Kozu cannot pass Dai either this way _as long as Dai skates in 4cc-but he can improve his ranking. But they didnt do it to punish Oda and send him to Q round, probably they wanted to boost the other two rankings and so they sent Oda to Universiade.

    I m a Hanyu potential uber and a big Kozu fan but I dont agree that they need to exclude Oda from the team because he messed the Worlds a season ago. It is as logical as not sending Abott to Worlds because he messed the Olympics. Besides Oda has skated pretty well this season, and according to ISU that uses the ranking from the last 2 seasons plus the current one, he is the highest ranked skater of the three (probably Dai will pass him by 4cc) so he wont go to Q round.
    Seniorita is correct. And I was wrong, so please disregard previous calculations.

    While you will see a whole bunch of points from the current and last two seasons on the World Standings, only some of them count toward the total point score:

    1.) The best two Olympics or World results for the skater
    2.) The best four results of GP/GP Final (but no more than two per season)
    3.) The best four results of JGP/JGP FInal (but no more than two per season)
    4.) The best four results of Senior B competitions.

    Also the point total from two seasons ago are given 70 percent the point value.

    Again the current standings are

    Oda - 3635
    Takahashi - 3318
    Kozuka - 2982.

    Kozuka's two best Worlds results is currently 574 (8th at the Olympics) and 496 (70 percent of his point total from his 6th place finish at 2009 Worlds).

    If he wins, he would earn 840 points. But he would then have to take away 496 points because he got a better Worlds/Olympics results.

    So 2982+ 840 = 3822 BUT - 496 = 3326 which still would put him below Oda's score.

    Takahashi, on the other hand, only has one Worlds point total, due to not competing in the 2008-2009 season, the last season that counts.

    If Kozuka wins, all Takahashi have to do is show up and place at least 24th to beat the score he would have received.

    It looks like Oda is off the hook.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post

    I believe they could have sent Hanyu to the quali and Oda would be left out of the Worlds. NO? Who would object officially?
    You have here my official protest!

    You and many others are pushing Hanyu way too hard at the moment. His results show clearly he is not close to the top 3 in Japan right now, due to some serious wekness in his LP to skate all the way in his 4 1/2 minutes evenly. he usually tires oiut and loses speed and falters. Wait one or two years, then we discuss.

  7. #52
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    Sending Hanyu to Worlds instead of Oda? The Japanese are not stupid, let alone insane!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Sending Hanyu to Worlds instead of Oda? The Japanese are not stupid, let alone insane!
    The JSF has the stongest 3 top men team at the moment, any of the top 3 can win a big title, of course, only Dai managed to win a big one and the other two have yet to do it or to win a world medal, but the potential is right there. And I have the feeling that they could very well grab 2 medals in Tokyo, comes March.

  9. #54
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    Hi Mrs P.
    Here's the original news from Sports-Houchi which talks about the possibility of Dai may go to preliminary round.
    大輔、世界選手権予選に出場も…フィギュア
    オープニングで高橋大輔と入場する村上佳菜子

     フィギュアスケート世界選手権ディフェンディング王者の高橋大輔(24)=関大大学院=が、信成の“尻ぬ ぐい”に予選(上位がSPに進出)から出場する可能性が出てきた。昨季世界選手権で信成がフリーに進出でき なかったことで男子代表の1人が予選から出場することになっており、全日本3位の高橋に課せられる可能性が 高い。それでも高橋は「全日本では忘れていた勝負心を思い出させてくれた。予選に回ったとしてもいい練習だ と思ってやる」と前向きだった。
    It says that one of the Japanese skaters has to skate in preliminary round, since Oda failed to make it to FS last year. The possibility of Dai skating in preliminary is large, because he was third in the nationals. Dai showed positive attitude toward this possibility, saying, " I will take the opportunity as a good practice."

    About being a door mat in US needs complex explanation (This is about huge cultural gap between US and Japan) . I just want Dai to be more assertive to his real needs.

  10. #55
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genki View Post
    Hi Mrs P.
    Here's the original news from Sports-Houchi which talks about the possibility of Dai may go to preliminary round.
    大輔、世界選手権予選に出場も…フィギュア
    オープニングで高橋大輔と入場する村上佳菜子

     フィギュアスケート世界選手権ディフェンディング王者の高橋大輔(24)=関大大学院=が、信成の“尻ぬ ぐい”に予選(上位がSPに進出)から出場する可能性が出てきた。昨季世界選手権で信成がフリーに進出でき なかったことで男子代表の1人が予選から出場することになっており、全日本3位の高橋に課せられる可能性が 高い。それでも高橋は「全日本では忘れていた勝負心を思い出させてくれた。予選に回ったとしてもいい練習だ と思ってやる」と前向きだった。
    It says that one of the Japanese skaters has to skate in preliminary round, since Oda failed to make it to FS last year. The possibility of Dai skating in preliminary is large, because he was third in the nationals. Dai showed positive attitude toward this possibility, saying, " I will take the opportunity as a good practice."

    About being a door mat in US needs complex explanation (This is about huge cultural gap between US and Japan) . I just want Dai to be more assertive to his real needs.
    But nationals doesn't determine who gets sent to the QR, the World Standing does and currently the man who is at the bottom of the three is Kozuka. And as mentioned earlier, even if Kozuka wins, it won't be enough to take Oda and all Daisuke has to do is show up to 4CC to beat Kozuka.

  11. #56
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genki View Post
    Hi Mrs P.
    Here's the original news from Sports-Houchi which talks about the possibility of Dai may go to preliminary round.
    大輔、世界選手権予選に出場も…フィギュア
    オープニングで高橋大輔と入場する村上佳菜子

     フィギュアスケート世界選手権ディフェンディング王者の高橋大輔(24)=関大大学院=が、信成の“尻ぬ ぐい”に予選(上位がSPに進出)から出場する可能性が出てきた。昨季世界選手権で信成がフリーに進出でき なかったことで男子代表の1人が予選から出場することになっており、全日本3位の高橋に課せられる可能性が 高い。それでも高橋は「全日本では忘れていた勝負心を思い出させてくれた。予選に回ったとしてもいい練習だ と思ってやる」と前向きだった。
    It says that one of the Japanese skaters has to skate in preliminary round, since Oda failed to make it to FS last year. The possibility of Dai skating in preliminary is large, because he was third in the nationals. Dai showed positive attitude toward this possibility, saying, " I will take the opportunity as a good practice."

    About being a door mat in US needs complex explanation (This is about huge cultural gap between US and Japan) . I just want Dai to be more assertive to his real needs.
    In my country when we dont understand something, we say it looks like Japanese
    Actually in Q round goes the 3rd ranked skater as the standings are before Worlds, so even if someone is the reigning Olympic Champion but ranked third between his countrymen he is the one that will go to Q round no matter what happened to Nationals. It looks like Dai will not go, unless he finishes below 24 in 4CC. Simple

  12. #57
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Dear me, this thread has become less discussion about the quali and more about Oda personally. No one is against Oda not being on the Team. Japan Fed goes for the strong Team to go the Worlds - not the results of one competition. Oda proved himself in 2010 and is part of that strong Team. No Japanese skater will fail to qualify in that prelim round.

  13. #58
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I meant to post this before and I forgot
    A federation gets as many direct entries as the number of this federation's skaters in the top 18 for Singles, top 12 for Pairs, and top 12 (Euros, 4CC) or 15 (Jr. Worlds and Worlds) for Ice Dance in the corresponding discipline of the preceding season's same Championships.

    In case the number of Direct Entries obtained this way is less than required, the next listed Member(s) obtain the right for Direct entry until the required number of entries is reached.

    Preliminary Round
    Federations with more total entries in a discipline than direct entries must have the skaters without a direct entry skate in the preliminary round, which consists of a free skate/dance competition.

    The top ranked competitors after the preliminary round (according to the number of preliminary round entries allotted above) qualify to the main short program/dance competition.

    Scores from the preliminary round do not carry over to the main competition.


    The skater(s) ranked higher in the ISU World Standings at the time when the competition entries are made must be given preference for the direct entries.
    The competitor with the lower ISU World Standings ranking must be entered into the Preliminary Round.

    Host members (the federation hosting the ISU Championship) are entitled to have one competitor per discipline in the short program/dance, even if they did not qualify for it.

  14. #59
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    There is no reason to be concerned for any of the 3 of them to not make it out from the qualification, no matter who he will be. They are top ranked skaters and those who will be against are way weaker.
    Last edited by herios; 01-07-2011 at 08:31 AM.

  15. #60
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    Although I am not concerned at all for either Kozuka or Takahashi to have to skate in the prelim round, this rule is really stupid. I was just checking out the direct entries in ice dance for the euros, and a totally unheralded team from Israel, I have never heard of Frieling/Rumi is directly qualified, based on the Zaretky's last year result...How fair is this?

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