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Thread: Mens Lp

  1. #31
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    Really like Plushenko and Buttle can't really touch him in a lot of areas but Buttle has Plushenko beat right now in artistry whether the scores show it or not.

  2. #32
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    I debated whether to wade into the Buttle/Plushenko debate, but here goes.... In jumps, Plushenko is still technically ahead of Buttle, who can't seem to get the quad consistently. Both have great artistry (don't know where the comment came from about Buttle not having that - he is a fairly classical-looking skater). Personally my preference is for Buttle who seems more genuine to me, though Plushenko has admittedly improved here in recent years - I remember a time when all his flowery movements used to make me cringe. I think the great thing is that I see the potential in Buttle to be able to actually be some serious competition for Plushenko in the future....with Yagudin out, Plushenko is arguably unbeatable right now, which makes for some fairly boring events. I think anyone who dismisses either skater does so at their peril.

  3. #33
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    Buttle is something of a challenge right now, because Plushy's bad knee keeps him from performing at his best. But Buttle really does not have a quad; I see Jeff as a Todd Eldredge or Michael Weiss in this respect.

    Plushy can still deliver his quad, and occasionally his quad combo, and that puts him ahead of a quadless Buttle. They both are strong performers artistically.

  4. #34
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    Jeff is still young and I wouldn't count him out on the quad just yet. He has landed it, though admittedly with no consistency in competition. But consider that as little as two years ago he was in the same exact situation with the triple axel, which he now lands on a regular basis. He's never even won the national championship. Last year was his first trip to worlds. He's at the beginning of his amateur career, while I consider Plushenko already well established and someone I could see going pro after the next Olympics should he win (which looks more than likely at this early stage). Aside from that one jump I do not consider Plushenko light years ahead of Buttle in any respect. I think this could develop into a genuine rivalry, even providing Plushenko gets and remains healthy.

  5. #35
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    Yes, we can talk for hours comparing Buttle and Plushenko...but what about Buttle and Goebel? I think that those two are a much closer match, given that one of the major reasons that Jeff beat Tim was because of the food poisoning. I love Jeff Buttle, and I love Tim Goebel...but, at this point, neither of them are giving a rather flawed Plushneko much of a fight.

  6. #36
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    First, while I agree Goebel and Buttle make an interesting match-up, Goebel stated clearly in post-competition interviews that his long program performance was in no way hampered by the food poisoning. I don't think it's fair to knock Buttle's win by saying he only did so because Goebel was ill.


    As for how the two match up, clearly Goebel has had more consistent quads, but in other technical areas - spins, footwork etc - I would mark Buttle ahead. I also think Buttle is the superior artist, though Goebel has certainly shown some improvement in this area over the last couple of years. Still, the positioning of shoulders, neck and back are noticeably still stiff when Geobel performs. Neither are hugely consistent in landing all their jumps in a given program.


    As for how they stack up against Plushenko, I think it's giving Plushenko undeserved credit to say neither are really in his league, even healthy. Last year? at worlds I thought Goebel should have had the gold medal ahead of Plushenko, who also has always had his own problems with consistency. Sure, Plushenko is great, but unbeatable? No. He may not be beaten this year, but I wouldn't count out Buttle or Goebel in years to come.

  7. #37
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    as far as Buttle and Goebel go... at worlds it's going to come down to experience... Will Buttle be able to hold up under all of the pressure that is most likely going to be set on him after such a strong opening?

  8. #38
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    Oh, I agree, experience could be a big factor. Both Goebel and Plushenko have shown they can do it when it counts (though they've both had disappointing moments as well). Buttle is still an unkown factor..... So far he seems to have that fight and the ability to rise to the occasion, but he's never had to do it at the really big events when people actually had expectations of him before. We'll see how he handles it.

  9. #39
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    Goebel has had a boot problem that has hurt his 3A and his edge jumps. He has fallen twice during the GP series on his 3A, a jump he's never had problems with before. Tim can still do at least one quad, but the absence of a reliable 3A hurts his ability to do a 2nd combo.

  10. #40
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    Rain, I worded what I meant wrong...because I just read it, and that's not what I meant at all, sorry .

    What I was suggesting is that in terms of performances, Buttle and Goebel are a lot more evenly matched generally than with Plushenko. However, they do challenge Plushenko, and I worded it wrong when I insinuated that they are out of Plushenko's league. I agree that Tim should have won gold at worlds last year, and was rather upset when he didn't. They can both challenge Plushenko when they skate their best, but as they have been skating this year in competition, they are a much better matchup against each other, because no matter which one wins, it wouldn't be an upset.

    I don't know if that made any more sense...just wanted to clarify. I hope that they can both beat Plushenko, because, personally, I enjoy their skating much more than his.

    Kat

  11. #41
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    man, imo it was no contest at the world championships. plush won hands down... and all 9 judges concurred. better footwork, jumps, and artistry.. tim is still working on his posture,LOL. it HAS improved i must say...finally. it wasn't as close as some of the north american commentators made it seem. i'm sure in most other countries..and certainly in russia..they all thought plushy was head and shoulders above timmy that night. but, it might not be the case next year... we'll just have to wait and see.

  12. #42
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    world's, Plush, and Timmy

    I agree completley - ALL the judges put Plush ahead of Tim, so I wouldn't call it a "wuz robbed" situation. And the truth is, no one deserved that World title last season more than Plush.

    Essentially undefeated (not counting Campbell's cheesefes/splatfest) all season AND his breathtaking and history making quad-triple-triple.

    He's been so damn good people take him for granted.

    (and no, I feel no love for Plush, LOL, just love this little emoticon)

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