Senior Pairs Free Program | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Senior Pairs Free Program

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Wow, MT & M blew me away. Re: Brodeur and Mattatall, I wonder if it would be better if they tried easier throws, like 2A (or is it better to rotate the triples even with a fall)?
 

Tigger

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Very very curious about that last lift. I could see it not counting. But yeah, they've won.

What do you mean? It's been there the entire season, so there's no problem.

Congratulations to Kirsten and Dylan!! I was at Skate Canada at Kitchener-Waterloo last season when they made such a huge splash there. We knew then we were watching a team that was going go places and FAST!! Can't wait to see how they do in Tokyo!!

And Congratulations to Megan and Eric on the Silver Medal and other pair of tickets to Worlds!!! Megan's from my area and I've basically watched her grow up over the years. It's beyond wonderful to see her paired up w/someone who I think will end taking her to some place very special in the Future.

What a night!! Now I just hope I can get to sleep. :D
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
What do you mean? It's been there the entire season, so there's no problem.

At Cup of Russia, Smirnov (of Kavaguti/Smirnov) bent his arm in the lift, and my understanding is that the lift counts from when the arm is straight to when its broken (bent), and Dylan bent his arm fairly soon after extending it fully. I'd love for someone with a better eye to double check that (both the rules and my perception of the lift). It wasn't quite as as strong as it was at Skate Canada, anyway. It's still crazy awesome difficult.

I'm more excited about Lawrence/Swiegers than I was before. The mistake was really disappointing because it really shook them up, but the choreography seemed better than I've ever seen it (the transition lifts in particular are wonderfully woven throughout).

Frankly, if Dube/Davison are able to come back next season strongly, I think they with Mt-M could get us the three spots again. And if Mt-M and D/R get the three spots... well, I'd be flustered (the top five is basically set it stone, so they need to be 6th and 7th, and they have the Zhangs and the American teams, along with Hausch and Wende standing in the way).
 
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pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Frankly, if Dube/Davison are able to come back next season strongly, I think they with Mt-M could get us the three spots again. And if Mt-M and D/R get the three spots... well, I'd be flustered (the top five is basically set it stone, so they need to be 6th and 7th, and they have the Zhangs and the American teams, along with Hausch and Wende standing in the way).

The top 5 are set in stone? Just curious who are those 5 you are thinking of. Presumably Volosozhar & Morozov, Savchenko & Szolkowy, Pang & Tong, and Kavaguti & Smirnov, but who is the 5th team. I would say more like the top 4 maybe are set in stone. And one or both of P&T and K&S could choose to retire at any point particularly if they see they arent competitive for gold anymore.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Barazova/Larionov.

Sui is too young, so Sui/Han won't be there.

Only three spots, so I/M and G/E won't be there.

I can't really see B/L losing the the Canadian, American or German2 team(s).

The Zhangs are a big question mark, but they were dropping like a stone before the injury.

Though my comment was wierd: I think Dube/Davison can get three spots with the other Canadian team next year. I doubt that Canada can get three spots with any combination of its teams this year- D/R and Mt/M would need a major stroke of circumstance for that to happen.

But "set in stone" is tempting the skate gods.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I dont agree Barazova & Larionov are unbeatable for 5th place either this season or next season at all. Dube & Davison in fact would be favored to beat them if they return to form at all. B&L are improving but they were never close to D&D before even when D&D didnt skate well. And actually I am pretty sure Sui will be eligible for Worlds this year. And yes the Zhangs were dropping bigtime even before the injury, who knows if they will even return at all given how quiet things have been.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I'm still being unclear.

1. If Dube/Davison come back next season, I think they with the other top team can get back three spots. D/D can certainly beat B/L.

2. This season, without D/D, Canada getting three spots is a virtual impossibility.

3. Sui was born July 18, 1995 according to wikipedia, and skaters must be older than fifteen as of July 1 the previous year to compete. 17 days too young.

4. A top five at this years worlds as the competition stands without P/T, S/S, and the three Russian teams would surprise me (though not that order, of course).
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Protocol time

Mt/M: one judge went gave two nines (performance/execution; interpretation). On average, that judge was a full point higher than the other seven (so he was dumped).

D/R: Edge call on flip. Was deemed a 3F+2T sequence (goal is a 3F+2T+2T combo)

L/S: Got credit for a 2A+1A sequence. If they had gotten credit for a 2A 2A sequence, wouldn't have changed the final rankings (LP or otherwise)
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Congratz to M-T/M, the new pairs champs!:biggrin: Not their best, but clearly the class of the field tonight. I'm really liking their chances for a good finish at the worlds.

It was nice to see Meaghan Duhamel get her jumping legs under her tonight. I think these two have got great potential.

My heart is breaking for L/S:cry: They were so on in the first half of that skate, and I really think that if it had continued, they would have been the silver medallists without question. That fall was such a fluke! I was really impressed by how he kept with it when he was obviously shaken up and probably in pain, but I think the deductions they took on those last two lifts alone probably cost them the trip to worlds. It's really a shame that it had to happen to them now, especially after a good GP season. That being said, they're young, dynamic and talented, and I think they are going to have a very long, successful career in the sport. I can't wait to see them come back fighting next season.
 

MikiAndoFan#1

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Oh my God, I'm so happy Meagan & Eric got the silver medal! :love: Congratulations to the medalists and to the new Canadian pairs champion! :biggrin:
 

zizi

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Congratulations to Meagan&Eric, MT&M! They can go to the Worlds!
Who will be sent to 4CC?
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Am I the only one who thinks Dube and Davison would have been hard pressed to beat Moore-Towers and Moscovitch at this competition, had they competed?
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Am I the only one who thinks Dube and Davison would have been hard pressed to beat Moore-Towers and Moscovitch at this competition, had they competed?

Unfortunately, no. :disapp: I don't think that there's any question that Dube/Davison are light years ahead of Moore-Towers/Moscovitch in terms of transitions and refinement, but their tendency to fall on side by side jumps could have really hurt them here, especially with M-T/M skating relatively cleanly. That being said, I think that a clean D/D would still finish very easilt ahead of a clean M-T/M.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Unfortunately, no. :disapp: I don't think that there's any question that Dube/Davison are light years ahead of Moore-Towers/Moscovitch in terms of transitions and refinement, but their tendency to fall on side by side jumps could have really hurt them here, especially with M-T/M skating relatively cleanly. That being said, I think that a clean D/D would still finish very easilt ahead of a clean M-T/M.

Yeah, exactly, I think Dube and Davison would have beat them if they were clean, but the chance of Dube and Davison going clean seems kind of slim sometimes (Jessica almost always falls on a SBS jump). I think they would also have trouble beating a clean Duhamel and Radford or even Lawrence and Swiegers if they had a fall and the other two went clean.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Am I the only one who thinks Dube and Davison would have been hard pressed to beat Moore-Towers and Moscovitch at this competition, had they competed?

Not really. Dube/Davison present means that Mt/M would've likely seen a drop in PCS along with little things - D/D's programs exploit COP better (five back-ended elements; the higher risk triple lutz with the loop as the throws as opposed to the salchow/loop, higher level elements with the triple twist and the death spiral). It might have been a challenge, but I think D/D would win.
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Yeah, exactly, I think Dube and Davison would have beat them if they were clean, but the chance of Dube and Davison going clean seems kind of slim sometimes (Jessica almost always falls on a SBS jump). I think they would also have trouble beating a clean Duhamel and Radford or even Lawrence and Swiegers if they had a fall and the other two went clean.

Agreed. Remember what happened to them in 2008 when they went down in the short? They got left down in fifth, and couldn't climb higher than second even with what I considered to be one of their absolute finest, cleanest free skate performances ever. I know that those were different teams, but that really doesn't matter. Pairs is all about the elements, and if you miss them, anyone who skates clean can surpass you, provided their techincal difficulty levels are in the same range as yours, which is true for all of the teams that you mentioned. I really do hope that D/D can come back strong and healthy next season. They're still a couple of my absolute favourite skaters, and I think that they have a lot to offer. They just need to learn to keep it together under pressure.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I think Dube & Davison over two programs have atleast a 2 fall advantage over M-T/M and a 4 fall advantage over the other current top pairs. Then again they have consistency problems so who knows. None ofthe top pairs skated totally perfectly (not even Moore-Towers and Moscovitch) and D&D usually skate pretty well at Canadians so they probably would have still won.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Agreed. Remember what happened to them in 2008 when they went down in the short? They got left down in fifth, and couldn't climb higher than second even with what I considered to be one of their absolute finest, cleanest free skate performances ever. I know that those were different teams, but that really doesn't matter. Pairs is all about the elements, and if you miss them, anyone who skates clean can surpass you, provided their techincal difficulty levels are in the same range as yours, which is true for all of the teams that you mentioned. I really do hope that D/D can come back strong and healthy next season. They're still a couple of my absolute favourite skaters, and I think that they have a lot to offer. They just need to learn to keep it together under pressure.

Yeah, I remember that now.. iirc they were even behind Brodeur and Mattatall after the short?
 
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