Four Continents, Junior World, Senior World and Senior National Teams | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Four Continents, Junior World, Senior World and Senior National Teams

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Expect all Canadian Medalists to be sent to 4CC. I don't anticipate any absence with the exception of Ice Dance where one spot is reserved for Virtue/Moir, hence only C/P and W/P will accompany them.
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
So does this mean that both Paul/Islam and Ralph/Hill's seasons are over? That's too bad...
 

SamuraiKike

Medalist
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
The only medallist I see skipping 4CC is Patrick Chan.. all of the others would benefit a lot from going.

The only question mark is Virtue&Moir but I doubt theyll be ready, its only two weeks from now, so at least Paul & Islam will get to go there.
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
The only medallist I see skipping 4CC is Patrick Chan.. all of the others would benefit a lot from going.

The only question mark is Virtue&Moir but I doubt theyll be ready, its only two weeks from now, so at least Paul & Islam will get to go there.

As of now, Paul/Islam have been excluded from both the world and 4CC team, and Virtue/Moir have been listed in their place (PJ just made the announcement on cbc). It seems that Patrick will skip 4CC, and Reynolds has been named in his place. Other than that, all of the entries are as expected.
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
I would love to see Skate Canada send DeSantis and Najarro to either Nebelhorn or Finlandia next year. Martinez and Balde can also use an international B experience to get back on the international scene.

Najarro can still go back to the JGP next season so it is better to compete there for at least her scores will count for season bests lists at a JGP.

Senior B scores DO NOT count for ISU season bests lists ( but JGP scores do count). That's why it is always better for those who can to JGP's to get their ISU ranking points on the JGP rather than senior B's. Besides if one does well enough on JGP's to make the JGPF, you get a lot of extra points ( even if you finish dead last at JGPF ).

DeSantis definitely should get Nebelhorn and probably Skate Canada as well ( the only senior GP she can get at this point )
 

oakl0008

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
PJ Kwong has just announced the 4CC and World Teams. If I heard correctly, the only one sitting out 4CC will be Patrick Chan. So from the men, they will send Shawn Sawyer, Joey Russell, and Kevin Reynolds.

The only concern I have with Sawyer having the performance of his life here (he really did need it) is that I REALLY hope he still has some left in the tank to perform well at 4CC and especially worlds. Looks like they officially announced that it is Sawyer and Russell going to worlds with Chan and no skate-off with Reynolds so not too much is on the line with 4CC. It would be good to build up momentum for these guys though. They need it! :)
 

npa

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
PJ Kwong has just announced the 4CC and World Teams. If I heard correctly, the only one sitting out 4CC will be Patrick Chan. So from the men, they will send Shawn Sawyer, Joey Russell, and Kevin Reynolds.

The only concern I have with Sawyer having the performance of his life here (he really did need it) is that I REALLY hope he still has some left in the tank to perform well at 4CC and especially worlds. Looks like they officially announced that it is Sawyer and Russell going to worlds with Chan and no skate-off with Reynolds so not too much is on the line with 4CC. It would be good to build up momentum for these guys though. They need it! :)

And what about V-M? C-P, W-P and P-I are at 4CC team? So V-M will not go?
And what about Jinior WCh team?
Wil Najarro going?
 
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rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
If I recall correctly, P.J. included V/M for Worlds and 4CC, but not P/I. However, she also said "the spot was being held" for V/M. If V/M opt not to go to one or both, perhaps P/I would take their place.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
PJ Kwong has just announced the 4CC and World Teams. If I heard correctly, the only one sitting out 4CC will be Patrick Chan. So from the men, they will send Shawn Sawyer, Joey Russell, and Kevin Reynolds.

The only concern I have with Sawyer having the performance of his life here (he really did need it) is that I REALLY hope he still has some left in the tank to perform well at 4CC and especially worlds. Looks like they officially announced that it is Sawyer and Russell going to worlds with Chan and no skate-off with Reynolds so not too much is on the line with 4CC. It would be good to build up momentum for these guys though. They need it! :)

I'm surprised they named Joey to the World Team like that. Kevin has had much better international results recently and Joey, on top of being really inconsistent, seems to get very low scores internationally even when he does skate decently. I'm happy to see Joey go to Worlds, I just fear that he tanks and doesn't make it to the FS...
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I'm surprised they named Joey to the World Team like that. Kevin has had much better international results recently and Joey, on top of being really inconsistent, seems to get very low scores internationally even when he does skate decently. I'm happy to see Joey go to Worlds, I just fear that he tanks and doesn't make it to the FS...

The selection criteria is the same as last year. Joey Russel earned the spot. As for tanking, there's no garantee Kevin would not implode like he just did. Nobody knows now what will happen, including the skaters, who certainly do not wish to tank. Happens to some of the best nonetheless.
 

gottadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
skate canada's option's?

I am confused as to whether Skate Canada is bound by rule to send the top finishing skaters from Nationals or whether they have any leeway at all . If they do have the option then it would surely be in the interests of all concerned to have the 3rd man on the World team be selected on the basis of 4C's. I think I read that the Japanese Federation does that on occasion. The goal is to send the best possible team to Worlds which will in turn ensure that we get the maximum number of skaters to the following years worlds etc. That being the case , and given the length of time between 4C's and Worlds , why not use the opportunity for one last challenge for Russell and Reynolds for that last spot.
 

siberia82

Addicted to Canadian men's singles skating
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Country
Canada
I'm surprised they named Joey to the World Team like that. Kevin has had much better international results recently and Joey, on top of being really inconsistent, seems to get very low scores internationally even when he does skate decently. I'm happy to see Joey go to Worlds, I just fear that he tanks and doesn't make it to the FS...

For whatever reason, Skate Canada uses Nationals to determine the World Team 99.9% of the time and rarely take into account international results. Vaughn Chipeur had dreadful GP scores, but he was still sent to the 2009 Worlds (where he didn't place high enough to earn the Canadian men 3 spots for the Olympics) and the 2010 Olympics (where he finished 23rd) because he was the Canadian silver medalist in both years. I'm not a fan of this system, but it's just the way things are in Canadian figure skating. :eek:hwell:


I am confused as to whether Skate Canada is bound by rule to send the top finishing skaters from Nationals or whether they have any leeway at all. If they do have the option then it would surely be in the interests of all concerned to have the 3rd man on the World team be selected on the basis of 4C's

In theory, Skate Canada has free reign over whom to send to Worlds (they're only obligated to give the Canadian champion a berth), but as I've mentioned above, the big wigs prefer to rely solely on national results. I agree with you that skate-off at 4CC would be a better way to determine who should get the 3rd spot. I like Joey's skating style a lot more than Kevin's, but considering that Kevin has done better internationally, I think it's unfair that he won't get a second chance.

The Swedish federation has a better approach, IMHO. They gave their sole 2010 Olympics and Worlds men's spot to Adrian Schultheiss because he had stronger international results than Kristoffer Berntsson, who was the reigning national champion. As much as I adore Koffe, I agree that Adrian was the best choice. For the 2011 Worlds, Berntsson, Schultheiss and Alexander Majorov (they finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd respectively at the Swedish Championships, but Majorov earned the best scores during the fall) will have to fight for 2 spots at the Nordic Championships.
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Junior worlds
found the long of liam firus from nationals, looking for Andre's, thought Samuel Morais would be selected as he had a strong nationals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPVEEBedJOA

Some interesting things about this junior worlds. The higher ranking skaters have a D after their names saying that they are a direct entry. Rogozine does have a direct entry as he guaranteed Canada 1 direct entry this year. Firus does not have a D after his name and therefore has to do qualifying.

Of Firus, Rogozine and Morais, Rogozine is the only one who has a chance of finishing in the top 3 countries and giving us the maximum 14 JGP slots next season ( if SC will use them - see dance this year ). Firus will likely be top 10 but unlikely to be in the top 3 countries. Failure to finish in the top 3 countries would hit development hard as it would mean 7 or fewer ( depending on finish ) JGP slots.

IMO, the most important thing to do at JW is to get a finish to maximize the JGP entries next year.

I noticed on the women's side that Courtney Hicks ( US junior champ but no international experience ) has a direct entry. So the US were guaranteed 3 direct entries in ladies no matter who they send ( even if they send someone new to internationals. )
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Here's the rule that determines the number of direct entries a country gets:

From the Overall Entry Quota a Member gets as many Direct entries as the number of this Member’s Skaters in the top 18 places for Singles, top 12 places for Pairs and top 12 places for Ice Dance (European and Four Continents Figure Skating Championships according to paragraph 4. a) above and top 15 places for Ice Dance (World and World Junior Figure Skating Championships according to paragraph 4. b) above) in the corresponding discipline of the preceding season’s same Championship

So in the case of the US, at last year's Junior Worlds, Messing, Hochstein, and Mahbanoozadeh all finished top ten. Messing and Hochstein's total was 4+6=10, which is less than or equal to 13. So at this year's Jr Worlds, the US has 3 slots. Because all of last year's JR Worlds entrants from the US finished in the top 18, all 3 US men's entries are direct entries.

Canada sent Rogozine and Lam. Rogozine finished 6th, Lam finished 20th. 6+20=26 They get 2 slots again,, because that is less than 28. Because Lam did not finish in the top 18, they only get one direct entry. So, of the 2 skaters they send this year, the one with the highest ISU standing gets the one direct entry. Of Rogozin & Firus, that direct entry then must go to Rogozine, not because he finished higher than Lam last year, but because his ISU standing is higher than Firus's standing. The slots are linked to the federation, not to the skaters.

In the case of the US ladies last year at Jr Worlds, Zawadzki, Baga and Gao all finished in the top ten. (2nd, 7th & 8th) . The top total is 2+7=9 <= 13. The lowest score is 8<=18. So the US gets three ladies slots this year, and they are all direct entries, including Hicks, despite the fact that Hicks has not been to Jr. Worlds, nor, as far as I know, has any significant international experience.
 
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nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Thanks dorispulaski for the info. I was trying to find the relevant ISU communication for this but could not find it.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I couldn't find it in the ISU Communications List, so I put the following in Google:

site:isu.org Special Regulations and Technical Rules Single and Pair Skating and Ice Dance 2010

Google gave me the correct link, from which I downloaded the file containing Rule 378, which governs entries.
 
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