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Senior Dance Free

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
I was actually really impressed with the quality of the dance competition. I think I personally would have given it to Weaver/Poje, but that was honestly too close to call. In a season where both W/P and C/P's FD's hadn't completely won me over yet, I thought both teams had their best FD of the season.

Crone/Poirier were actually more expressive here, IMO, than I have ever seen them. That being said, I still think that W/P and even P/I have a greater connection to the audience and each other than C/P do, so I found it a little odd that C/P won on the strength of their PCS mark. Furthermore, I fin't it interesting that their program looks so intricate, and yet time and time again they get beaten on the technical mark (here by W/P, and Skate Canada by P/I). I'm starting to believe that C/P don't have as much of a knack for making the difficult look easy as I once thought. I still think that they have a legitimate shot at a world medal. and I hope that they can skate like this in Tokyo.

Weaver/Poje impressed me so much again tonight. Thier FD wasn't perfect, and I don't think they skated quite as freely as they did in the SD, but they still got through the program with more power and confidence than they have all season. The improvement in their skating here was quite remarkable. It's nice to see them skate without getting that sense that they are just hanging on to the twizzles and footwork. If they can do this at worlds, I think they can really shock everyone with an impressive placement.

Paul/Islam were stunning, as usual. I actually thought they looked a tad off in certain places tonight, but they still cast a spell with that program. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but it seemed that in their rotational lift they lost their balance slightly and he was forced to hold her in position (that lift was performed hands free at SC). Other than that, I though the program improved from earlier in the season. The top two are really going to have to watch their backs next year. If these two have done all of this in less than two years, imagine how good they will be by this time next season. I just hate that after such stellar performances here, their season has to end so prematurely. It's a shame that such a talented team with such lovely programs won't get to showcase themselves on the world stage this season.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
skatingfan, PCS recognizes the intricacies in "linking footwork/movement" and "choreography" components. In fact, the former is multiplied by a factor of 1.75. That said, they make the hard look hard.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
skatingfan, PCS recognizes the intricacies in "linking footwork/movement" and "choreography" components. In fact, the former is multiplied by a factor of 1.75. That said, they make the hard look hard.

Yes and also part of PCS is the SS component, which C/P are getting another edge. People tend to forget that a big chunk of PCS are not performance and interpretation, actually those are less than half if you take the choreo in consideration as well.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:) I think (after watching and rewatching ) that W/P were held back in the SD. I don't know by how much , but e.g. - if they were slightly under marked and C/P slightly overmarked , C/P would have enjoyed a greater advantage than was apparent going into the FD. I can't say what the margin should have been, but I think W/P had the best SD and re-watching only confirmed it for me. I don't know if W/P were undermarked, but I do feel C/P were over marked to some degree.
Vanessa looked better groomed than I've ever seen her , she had the most flattering and well fitted dress she's ever had. She and Paul were obviously trying to connect to one another,(kudos) . The trouble is, it was too obvious they had to try. They skated the program better than they have all season, but it's still hard to feel the waltz in the program..the music doesn't help this.It made me feel they were slightly falling in and out of time with the waltz. ( It began to make me curious as to how they did with the Golden Waltz last year and whether that played a part in the choice of this music...)

There's no use trying to tell some story about the song being about the pain of breaking up , so therefore they didn't need to connect that well or be that romantic ..etc. This is an SD not an OD. It's about expressing the GW and whatever other rhythm they've chosen. The upshot is, the waltz wasn't very waltzy, however well they skated it ,and the rest was even less waltzy without being a foxtrot, two-step, tango, or whatever.

W/P's SD ( by itself) is simply one of the better ones we've seen this season , and they skated it lights out. They really brought out the waltz in their music , and the two-step was great. Their unison was good to exquisite in places ( I'm thinking of that final footwork section). So I think the SD was given to the wrong couple , and that puts the final outcome under something of a cloud for me.

They both had mistakes in the FD but W/P's were no more glaring than C/P's. I've thought W/P's FD was something of a drawback all season , but as Pogue points out ,they did make some improvements, and it had more flow than previously.

I appreciate Dean's choreography , but it strikes me as completely abstract. The commentators can relate that it tells a sad story , but the skaters bring no emotion. I'm perfectly OK with abstract. When I get a bit annoyed is when someone keeps telling me how emotional something is..and it's not there. If it's there, no-one needs to be told. We are not sheep.

All of this leaves me feeling very apples/oranges about the FD..but I can't feel entirely comfortable with the results of the SD, and that's the rub.

If P/I continues their rate of improvement, both these teams are on notice next year..I'm not sure the gap between the top two and 3rd should have been so great.

This is not a rant..just a hmmmm.. I plan to rant about something tomorrow.;)
 
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callalily

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
I stood for two dances — Paul & Islam and Crone & Poirier. Both of these teams managed to do complex choreography while gliding effortlessly across the ice at great speed. They managed to make all the difficulty look uncluttered. Weaver & Poje were good and very well-trained. But at times I found it looked cluttered. ....
I can say, though, that many in the audience seemed to prefer Weaver & Poje's FD — it is a much more obvious, traditionally accessible piece.

I agree with this. W/P's short dance was very well choreographed, and they performed it cleanly, with confidence and charm. It impressed me.

But I wasn't as impressed with their free dance. To me, the program seemed a bit frantic at times. They were reaching for each other, there were several small errors. The lifts had the "wow" factor, and there was great energy, and I think these factors won them the audience.

They're a strong team, continuing to improve. But I agree with C/P's win (although I'd have given the short dance to W/P).
 
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callalily

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
On a completely different note, it's interesting to see that W/P are pretty upfront with the press in expressing a certain degree of dissatisfaction with the result (same was true after last year's Nationals).

Now don't jump on me - I'm not criticizing them. But it's unusual (in Canadian skating) and interesting. It may help them, because it suggests a certain amount of tenacity and temerity that they will certainly need, because there won't be room for everyone in Canadian ice dance over the next few years (V/M, C/P, W/P, P/I). On the other hand, it may alienate others.
 

L'amour

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
P/I: I think they are great skaters, she is a very elegan girl and i like their program...but...don't they have some similar movies to Tessa and Scot's last years FD? This really bugs me. Its ok thta she is very much like a ballerina, like Tessa, but they really need to skate a program that remind so much V/M? They didid a really good job this seans, coming from juniors is hard and they stood out from the other teams so well. I really hope next seasn they came up with program/costumes free od comparisons coments.

W/P: They are very elegant skaters and i like the first half of they program. I don't like Tango de Roxane, its overused. Their program is very entertaning and easy to get but i beat "cheap" (that heart on the begening...really?). Their lifts were great but there is nothing really espetial about it. I think they were hel back by the SD marks, they ha d a wonderful skate and should have been first, but i agree with the FD marks.

C/P: First of all: i like abstract things...so i love their FD. Their skating was great, aside the twizzel, it was very intense and i think it was the first time the showed emotion. It a complicated dance and I understand why a lot of ppl don't like it, but lets face it, is a bit more speatial then W/P.

Congratualition for the 3 teams, they all have wonderfull qualities and they are so young..they have a briliant future ahead of them. Next year Natinals will be really interesting!
 

mtz

Spectator
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
With regards to P/I's FD - I totally agree with you L'amour - not only were the costumes similar to V/M but the moves also were a mini-Mahler......others have already posted these sentiments - so I guess I am not adding anything new, LOL
 

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Given time, I expect Paul/Islam will go down their own separate road. They are fresh out of the Juniors, perhaps their people felt likening themselves to the top team would help get them accepted as serious contenders sooner. Not that their talent doesn't speak for itself. At Skate Canada International, I believe it was Tracy Wilson who announced them as being "special". According to David Pelletier's commentary at the Vancouver Olympics, Tracy once said something similar about Virtue/Moir ie. someday they would win an Olympic gold medal. We all know how that prediction turned out.
 

fan1961

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
In response to Callalily - and W/P comments to the press.....I am one who is alienated by this "expression of dissatisfaction" - it appears to me that Kaitlin was pouting backstage and on the podium -she is too old for that kind of stuff and too experienced in this sport for this. Her comment that she and Andrew were going to remember their feeling before C/P's score came up is terrific... go with that and keep working... Tenacity and temerity is a good thing - being a poor loser is another ... (same was true after last year's Nationals... don't get me going on how appalled I was to see Kaitlins dad booing C/P....) ... Generally W/P need more media training -if you want to be a champion - you need to act like one --in this department they could certainly take a lesson from C/P
 
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herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Tenacity and temerity is a good thing - being a poor loser is another ... (same was true after last year's Nationals... don't get me going on how appalled I was to see Kaitlins dad booing C/P....) ... Generally W/P need more media training -if you want to be a champion - you need to act like one --in this department they could certainly take a lesson from C/P

The graceful behaviour lesson was not passed by Kaitlin as far as I observed, I have never seen Andrew complaining. And I agree, in this sport you cannot rest on your laurels, you need to keep improving to keep up with your rivals and not just nationwise, also with the rivals internationally of course.
And they did that, when C/P first passed them in 2008-09, the gap between them and their younger rivals was larger, then they pulled up the next two seasons. They should not be dissatisfied, season has not ended yet and if they want to demonstrate they are better, they could do it at 4CC and Worlds, when they will be skating in front of the international panel. if you are an athlete and believe you are better, show it out there. The gap is so tiny that anything could happen, one level up on one element and they could come out on top. Something hit my ears, when the two teams have been interviewed after the SD, C/P said they have had some lower levels at the GP in the SD and they worked on them to make sure they will come back up. This is how all of them should strategize. And that is how Spihlband teams have been so successful, they are focusing on achieving those levels.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Paul/Islam were stunning, as usual. I just hate that after such stellar performances here, their season has to end so prematurely. It's a shame that such a talented team with such lovely programs won't get to showcase themselves on the world stage this season.

:scratch: They finished 3rd at Nationals, Canada attained 3 spots for 2011 based on V/M's 1st and C/P's 7th, and Paul/Islam meet the age requirements, so why wouldn't they be sent to Worlds?
 

Alvyne

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Country
Canada
:scratch: They finished 3rd at Nationals, Canada attained 3 spots for 2011 based on V/M's 1st and C/P's 7th, and Paul/Islam meet the age requirements, so why wouldn't they be sent to Worlds?

If V/M are going to Worlds, only the top 2 can go with them, not the top 3. The world team is V/M, C/P and W/P.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
:scratch: They finished 3rd at Nationals, Canada attained 3 spots for 2011 based on V/M's 1st and C/P's 7th, and Paul/Islam meet the age requirements, so why wouldn't they be sent to Worlds?

I thought that by now, all the fans hanging out on this board are aware that V/M are planning to return at 4CC. And the Olympic champs are able to skate, then tough luck for P/I.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
I 'm thinking P/I will be at 4CC but if V/M are there ( and especially if both V/M and D/W are there),I'm not sure C/P will be. Their camp ( and Skate Canada ) may not want to risk having a large disparity in marks between them and V/M - D/W just before World's. They might also not want to risk an international panel perhaps putting W/P slightly ahead of them , just before World's.
 
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museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
I didn't realize it had been 100% confirmed that Virtue/Moir will be back for competition this season.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I didn't realize it had been 100% confirmed that Virtue/Moir will be back for competition this season.

To be honest nothing have been confirmed 100%. But the most recent articles motivating their withdrawal from nationals mentioned they are fully training and doing daily runthrous, so in 4 weeks they feel their programs will be competition ready. And what is most important Tessa is pain free. And Skate Canada will know for sure if they need to enter P/I last minute, who are alternates for worlds anyway, so I am sure they will keep training and be competition ready just in case.
 

tangos

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
I 'm thinking P/I will be at 4CC but if V/M are there ( and especially if both V/M and D/W are there),I'm not sure C/P will be. Their camp ( and Skate Canada ) may not want to risk having a large disparity in marks between them and V/M - D/W just before World's. They might also not want to risk an international panel perhaps putting W/P slightly ahead of them , just before World's.


Wishful thinking Colleen??????
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
I've been trying to organize my thoughts. I was glued to my TV all through the competition, I don't have a laptop ,and I type far too slowly ( hunt and peck) to rush to the computer between skaters and get a few things off my chest..;) Maybe that's a good thing .. I posted something about W/P very late at night and wound up calling the quickstep a two-step. ( Was I groggily making some odd connection because she's originally from Texas ? ) :unsure:

Anyway, first rant topic : Harvey/Gagnon - I really liked their SD and definitely thought they should have been marked at least closer to R/H , if not above. But , OK, I realise that they maybe took a risk with their waltz , making the arm movements strong instead of soft ,and other stylistic choices ( but it sure fit the music). It seemed fast and very well skated. It worked for me , but maybe not for the judges.(Still, I don't see a reason for the gap in marks, maybe someone can do some 'splainin'..? ) As the edgy, "dark" SD's that we've seen this season go, I prefer their program to I/K's for example, and they really gave it all they had. It was one of my favourite SD's of the competition.

Their FD really surprised me.
First off, I have not liked their costumes from the start of the season. I really object to things around the neck. A dancer/skater has to have a lovely long neck to get away with it, otherwise it's at best distracting, at worst ,makes the shoulders look high and the neck non-existant.Tarah has no problem keeping her shoulders down ,so this was not the worst, but it really does nothing for her .The rest of her costume just seemed a mish-mash , and the sound was not so good on most of the clips I'd seen, or the music was unfamiliar...so I couldn't make sense of it all. Then too, as others have pointed out, they didn't skate as well as they can early in the season.. Finally, some commentator (pj ?)said
"depression -era music " and I understood..but the costume is still wrong. She needed a more "Grapes of Wrath"-ish cotton house dress (an artistic version, of course). What she has is more akin to a modern poor girl picking the best bits from the free box, or something..it's just not a good "fit" for the era. He could have done with a fewer patches and still got the message across ,..eh, that's minor detail...But..Ice dance judges have forgiven far worse costumes , so all my objections probably don't count for much with them , so let's set my bug-a-boos aside.

I loved their program and the way they skated it. I know I'll rewatch it to savour some of the lovely bits in their choreography.There was so much to like . I simply adored their strength move, when she lifts him. Oh, I know we've seen this before , but instead of a big "TA-DA !" moment ,he inclines his head and gives this sweet ,coy look to the audience.I laughed out loud. Completely charming and a little bit cheeky after all the fuss that's been made over other couples doing similar moves. I can't understand how this program ( beautifully skated ) did not recieve better marks.

*Intermission*:biggrin:
 
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colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
tangos , (like your name)

Not entirely wishful thinking , just one of the main options Skate Canada will have, and maybe some of the thinking that might be behind it, if they go that way. Of course they have other options, and it's hard to know which way they'll go.
It's true, I'd like to see P/I get a bit more exposure this year after being hampered by injury at CoR.( Skate Canada probably wishes they could send 4 to world's seeing how convincing P/I's transition to seniors has been.) But they won't get a sniff at World's unless someone else were ill or injured ,and I definitely don't wish for that. Meanwhile,some of their peers from World Juniors will be doing Euros and 4CC's, and becoming more widely known.

Skate Canada has to ( or should be ) thinking strategically for all their teams, not just C/P.
C/P are our champions now, and whether or not they do 4CC, that will carry some weight in perception at World's. If W/P (defending 4CC's champs) should skate lights out ,can anyone be sure that an international panel might not flip that tiny margin ? If the Shibs are there..they were knockouts at their GP assignments in very tough fields, and they've had all the intervening weeks to polish their programs..if C/Z go they also will have been polishing , but the Shibs would be more of a wild card, IMO.

If V/M are there, it will be because they're ready. If they're even only 75-80 % ready, C/P cannot touch them or D/W at this stage of their careers. But they can't really be 100 % sure of the bronze. It may be likely, but not assured. If they should finish off the podium, would that eat away at their National Champion's prestige , going into World's? OTOH ,the farther away in time from Canadians..the more likely people are to forget what a small margin they won it by.

Skate Canada has to take all this into consideration . Last year it turned out badly for R/H in spite of their higher national placement , since the international panel gave Allie and Michael the credit they were denied at Canadians, so...
 
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