One thing I took away from this years Nationals is how the top 5 teams will choose their FD programs next year...if some teams don't chose different themes whether romantic/modern/abstract/comedic etc, they may fall into some serious typecasting...so in addition to technical difficulty, originality and expression I think next year will set-up possible scenarios for 2014....
I dunno. V/M skated to three romantic FDs in four seasons ("Valse Triste," "Cherbourg" and "Mahler"). If it works for them, the team can get away with it. But less romantic teams tend to get hammered more than others, so...
Oh I agree that V/M did have 3/4 romantic FDs out of the last olympic cycle...but at the same time - the competition internationally had more variety and that V/M got away with it...honestly I am just hoping that teams do not try to emulate the Z/S formula...and I am a V/M fan....
I have not posted in a while - just like to read what every one else thinks... but I cannot let this go on. C/P have won the national championships and I believe deservedly so... they have beaten W/P all season, and have now beaten them in a very important competition. They are a young but very classy duo - The pressure was on them - it was theirs "to lose" - W/P have not beaten C/P - they had nothing to lose... so kudos to C/P for holding up to the pressure and performing when it counts... also C/P kudos to their professionalism in dealing with the media.. they always talked about the strength of the Canadian ice dance team as a whole - not like W/P who only talked about themselves...
I stood for two dances — Paul & Islam and Crone & Poirier. Both of these teams managed to do complex choreography while gliding effortlessly across the ice at great speed. They managed to make all the difficulty look uncluttered. Weaver & Poje were good and very well-trained. But at times I found it looked cluttered. And the short dance, to At Last, inevitably for me, brings the comparison to Dubreuil & Lauzon's FD to the same song — Weaver & Poje suffer by the comparison, as Dubreuil and Lauzon just brought such a sophistication and air of experience to the piece.
Originally Posted by museksk8r
I can say, though, that many in the audience seemed to prefer Weaver & Poje's FD — it is a much more obvious, traditionally accessible piece.
I was actually really impressed with the quality of the dance competition. I think I personally would have given it to Weaver/Poje, but that was honestly too close to call. In a season where both W/P and C/P's FD's hadn't completely won me over yet, I thought both teams had their best FD of the season.
Crone/Poirier were actually more expressive here, IMO, than I have ever seen them. That being said, I still think that W/P and even P/I have a greater connection to the audience and each other than C/P do, so I found it a little odd that C/P won on the strength of their PCS mark. Furthermore, I fin't it interesting that their program looks so intricate, and yet time and time again they get beaten on the technical mark (here by W/P, and Skate Canada by P/I). I'm starting to believe that C/P don't have as much of a knack for making the difficult look easy as I once thought. I still think that they have a legitimate shot at a world medal. and I hope that they can skate like this in Tokyo.
Weaver/Poje impressed me so much again tonight. Thier FD wasn't perfect, and I don't think they skated quite as freely as they did in the SD, but they still got through the program with more power and confidence than they have all season. The improvement in their skating here was quite remarkable. It's nice to see them skate without getting that sense that they are just hanging on to the twizzles and footwork. If they can do this at worlds, I think they can really shock everyone with an impressive placement.
Paul/Islam were stunning, as usual. I actually thought they looked a tad off in certain places tonight, but they still cast a spell with that program. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but it seemed that in their rotational lift they lost their balance slightly and he was forced to hold her in position (that lift was performed hands free at SC). Other than that, I though the program improved from earlier in the season. The top two are really going to have to watch their backs next year. If these two have done all of this in less than two years, imagine how good they will be by this time next season. I just hate that after such stellar performances here, their season has to end so prematurely. It's a shame that such a talented team with such lovely programs won't get to showcase themselves on the world stage this season.
skatingfan, PCS recognizes the intricacies in "linking footwork/movement" and "choreography" components. In fact, the former is multiplied by a factor of 1.75. That said, they make the hard look hard.
Yes and also part of PCS is the SS component, which C/P are getting another edge. People tend to forget that a big chunk of PCS are not performance and interpretation, actually those are less than half if you take the choreo in consideration as well.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
Constable , Costume Police
I think (after watching and rewatching ) that W/P were held back in the SD. I don't know by how much , but e.g. - if they were slightly under marked and C/P slightly overmarked , C/P would have enjoyed a greater advantage than was apparent going into the FD. I can't say what the margin should have been, but I think W/P had the best SD and re-watching only confirmed it for me. I don't know if W/P were undermarked, but I do feel C/P were over marked to some degree.
Vanessa looked better groomed than I've ever seen her , she had the most flattering and well fitted dress she's ever had. She and Paul were obviously trying to connect to one another,(kudos) . The trouble is, it was too obvious they had to try. They skated the program better than they have all season, but it's still hard to feel the waltz in the program..the music doesn't help this.It made me feel they were slightly falling in and out of time with the waltz. ( It began to make me curious as to how they did with the Golden Waltz last year and whether that played a part in the choice of this music...)
There's no use trying to tell some story about the song being about the pain of breaking up , so therefore they didn't need to connect that well or be that romantic ..etc. This is an SD not an OD. It's about expressing the GW and whatever other rhythm they've chosen. The upshot is, the waltz wasn't very waltzy, however well they skated it ,and the rest was even less waltzy without being a foxtrot, two-step, tango, or whatever.
W/P's SD ( by itself) is simply one of the better ones we've seen this season , and they skated it lights out. They really brought out the waltz in their music , and the two-step was great. Their unison was good to exquisite in places ( I'm thinking of that final footwork section). So I think the SD was given to the wrong couple , and that puts the final outcome under something of a cloud for me.
They both had mistakes in the FD but W/P's were no more glaring than C/P's. I've thought W/P's FD was something of a drawback all season , but as Pogue points out ,they did make some improvements, and it had more flow than previously.
I appreciate Dean's choreography , but it strikes me as completely abstract. The commentators can relate that it tells a sad story , but the skaters bring no emotion. I'm perfectly OK with abstract. When I get a bit annoyed is when someone keeps telling me how emotional something is..and it's not there. If it's there, no-one needs to be told. We are not sheep.
All of this leaves me feeling very apples/oranges about the FD..but I can't feel entirely comfortable with the results of the SD, and that's the rub.
If P/I continues their rate of improvement, both these teams are on notice next year..I'm not sure the gap between the top two and 3rd should have been so great.
This is not a rant..just a hmmmm.. I plan to rant about something tomorrow.
Last edited by colleen o'neill; 01-24-2011 at 05:07 AM.
I agree with this. W/P's short dance was very well choreographed, and they performed it cleanly, with confidence and charm. It impressed me.
Originally Posted by rain
But I wasn't as impressed with their free dance. To me, the program seemed a bit frantic at times. They were reaching for each other, there were several small errors. The lifts had the "wow" factor, and there was great energy, and I think these factors won them the audience.
They're a strong team, continuing to improve. But I agree with C/P's win (although I'd have given the short dance to W/P).
Last edited by callalily; 01-24-2011 at 06:19 AM.
On a completely different note, it's interesting to see that W/P are pretty upfront with the press in expressing a certain degree of dissatisfaction with the result (same was true after last year's Nationals).
Now don't jump on me - I'm not criticizing them. But it's unusual (in Canadian skating) and interesting. It may help them, because it suggests a certain amount of tenacity and temerity that they will certainly need, because there won't be room for everyone in Canadian ice dance over the next few years (V/M, C/P, W/P, P/I). On the other hand, it may alienate others.
P/I: I think they are great skaters, she is a very elegan girl and i like their program...but...don't they have some similar movies to Tessa and Scot's last years FD? This really bugs me. Its ok thta she is very much like a ballerina, like Tessa, but they really need to skate a program that remind so much V/M? They didid a really good job this seans, coming from juniors is hard and they stood out from the other teams so well. I really hope next seasn they came up with program/costumes free od comparisons coments.
W/P: They are very elegant skaters and i like the first half of they program. I don't like Tango de Roxane, its overused. Their program is very entertaning and easy to get but i beat "cheap" (that heart on the begening...really?). Their lifts were great but there is nothing really espetial about it. I think they were hel back by the SD marks, they ha d a wonderful skate and should have been first, but i agree with the FD marks.
C/P: First of all: i like abstract things...so i love their FD. Their skating was great, aside the twizzel, it was very intense and i think it was the first time the showed emotion. It a complicated dance and I understand why a lot of ppl don't like it, but lets face it, is a bit more speatial then W/P.
Congratualition for the 3 teams, they all have wonderfull qualities and they are so young..they have a briliant future ahead of them. Next year Natinals will be really interesting!
With regards to P/I's FD - I totally agree with you L'amour - not only were the costumes similar to V/M but the moves also were a mini-Mahler......others have already posted these sentiments - so I guess I am not adding anything new, LOL
Given time, I expect Paul/Islam will go down their own separate road. They are fresh out of the Juniors, perhaps their people felt likening themselves to the top team would help get them accepted as serious contenders sooner. Not that their talent doesn't speak for itself. At Skate Canada International, I believe it was Tracy Wilson who announced them as being "special". According to David Pelletier's commentary at the Vancouver Olympics, Tracy once said something similar about Virtue/Moir ie. someday they would win an Olympic gold medal. We all know how that prediction turned out.
In response to Callalily - and W/P comments to the press.....I am one who is alienated by this "expression of dissatisfaction" - it appears to me that Kaitlin was pouting backstage and on the podium -she is too old for that kind of stuff and too experienced in this sport for this. Her comment that she and Andrew were going to remember their feeling before C/P's score came up is terrific... go with that and keep working... Tenacity and temerity is a good thing - being a poor loser is another ... (same was true after last year's Nationals... don't get me going on how appalled I was to see Kaitlins dad booing C/P....) ... Generally W/P need more media training -if you want to be a champion - you need to act like one --in this department they could certainly take a lesson from C/P
Last edited by fan1961; 01-24-2011 at 11:13 AM.