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Thread: Senior Dance Free

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by fan1961 View Post
    Tenacity and temerity is a good thing - being a poor loser is another ... (same was true after last year's Nationals... don't get me going on how appalled I was to see Kaitlins dad booing C/P....) ... Generally W/P need more media training -if you want to be a champion - you need to act like one --in this department they could certainly take a lesson from C/P
    The graceful behaviour lesson was not passed by Kaitlin as far as I observed, I have never seen Andrew complaining. And I agree, in this sport you cannot rest on your laurels, you need to keep improving to keep up with your rivals and not just nationwise, also with the rivals internationally of course.
    And they did that, when C/P first passed them in 2008-09, the gap between them and their younger rivals was larger, then they pulled up the next two seasons. They should not be dissatisfied, season has not ended yet and if they want to demonstrate they are better, they could do it at 4CC and Worlds, when they will be skating in front of the international panel. if you are an athlete and believe you are better, show it out there. The gap is so tiny that anything could happen, one level up on one element and they could come out on top. Something hit my ears, when the two teams have been interviewed after the SD, C/P said they have had some lower levels at the GP in the SD and they worked on them to make sure they will come back up. This is how all of them should strategize. And that is how Spihlband teams have been so successful, they are focusing on achieving those levels.

  2. #92
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    Paul/Islam were stunning, as usual. I just hate that after such stellar performances here, their season has to end so prematurely. It's a shame that such a talented team with such lovely programs won't get to showcase themselves on the world stage this season.
    They finished 3rd at Nationals, Canada attained 3 spots for 2011 based on V/M's 1st and C/P's 7th, and Paul/Islam meet the age requirements, so why wouldn't they be sent to Worlds?

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    They finished 3rd at Nationals, Canada attained 3 spots for 2011 based on V/M's 1st and C/P's 7th, and Paul/Islam meet the age requirements, so why wouldn't they be sent to Worlds?
    If V/M are going to Worlds, only the top 2 can go with them, not the top 3. The world team is V/M, C/P and W/P.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    They finished 3rd at Nationals, Canada attained 3 spots for 2011 based on V/M's 1st and C/P's 7th, and Paul/Islam meet the age requirements, so why wouldn't they be sent to Worlds?
    I thought that by now, all the fans hanging out on this board are aware that V/M are planning to return at 4CC. And the Olympic champs are able to skate, then tough luck for P/I.

  5. #95
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I 'm thinking P/I will be at 4CC but if V/M are there ( and especially if both V/M and D/W are there),I'm not sure C/P will be. Their camp ( and Skate Canada ) may not want to risk having a large disparity in marks between them and V/M - D/W just before World's. They might also not want to risk an international panel perhaps putting W/P slightly ahead of them , just before World's.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 01-24-2011 at 12:51 PM.

  6. #96
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    I didn't realize it had been 100% confirmed that Virtue/Moir will be back for competition this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    I didn't realize it had been 100% confirmed that Virtue/Moir will be back for competition this season.
    To be honest nothing have been confirmed 100%. But the most recent articles motivating their withdrawal from nationals mentioned they are fully training and doing daily runthrous, so in 4 weeks they feel their programs will be competition ready. And what is most important Tessa is pain free. And Skate Canada will know for sure if they need to enter P/I last minute, who are alternates for worlds anyway, so I am sure they will keep training and be competition ready just in case.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    I 'm thinking P/I will be at 4CC but if V/M are there ( and especially if both V/M and D/W are there),I'm not sure C/P will be. Their camp ( and Skate Canada ) may not want to risk having a large disparity in marks between them and V/M - D/W just before World's. They might also not want to risk an international panel perhaps putting W/P slightly ahead of them , just before World's.

    Wishful thinking Colleen??????

  9. #99
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I've been trying to organize my thoughts. I was glued to my TV all through the competition, I don't have a laptop ,and I type far too slowly ( hunt and peck) to rush to the computer between skaters and get a few things off my chest.. Maybe that's a good thing .. I posted something about W/P very late at night and wound up calling the quickstep a two-step. ( Was I groggily making some odd connection because she's originally from Texas ? )

    Anyway, first rant topic : Harvey/Gagnon - I really liked their SD and definitely thought they should have been marked at least closer to R/H , if not above. But , OK, I realise that they maybe took a risk with their waltz , making the arm movements strong instead of soft ,and other stylistic choices ( but it sure fit the music). It seemed fast and very well skated. It worked for me , but maybe not for the judges.(Still, I don't see a reason for the gap in marks, maybe someone can do some 'splainin'..? ) As the edgy, "dark" SD's that we've seen this season go, I prefer their program to I/K's for example, and they really gave it all they had. It was one of my favourite SD's of the competition.

    Their FD really surprised me.
    First off, I have not liked their costumes from the start of the season. I really object to things around the neck. A dancer/skater has to have a lovely long neck to get away with it, otherwise it's at best distracting, at worst ,makes the shoulders look high and the neck non-existant.Tarah has no problem keeping her shoulders down ,so this was not the worst, but it really does nothing for her .The rest of her costume just seemed a mish-mash , and the sound was not so good on most of the clips I'd seen, or the music was unfamiliar...so I couldn't make sense of it all. Then too, as others have pointed out, they didn't skate as well as they can early in the season.. Finally, some commentator (pj ?)said
    "depression -era music " and I understood..but the costume is still wrong. She needed a more "Grapes of Wrath"-ish cotton house dress (an artistic version, of course). What she has is more akin to a modern poor girl picking the best bits from the free box, or something..it's just not a good "fit" for the era. He could have done with a fewer patches and still got the message across ,..eh, that's minor detail...But..Ice dance judges have forgiven far worse costumes , so all my objections probably don't count for much with them , so let's set my bug-a-boos aside.

    I loved their program and the way they skated it. I know I'll rewatch it to savour some of the lovely bits in their choreography.There was so much to like . I simply adored their strength move, when she lifts him. Oh, I know we've seen this before , but instead of a big "TA-DA !" moment ,he inclines his head and gives this sweet ,coy look to the audience.I laughed out loud. Completely charming and a little bit cheeky after all the fuss that's been made over other couples doing similar moves. I can't understand how this program ( beautifully skated ) did not recieve better marks.

    *Intermission*
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 01-24-2011 at 06:39 PM.

  10. #100
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    tangos , (like your name)

    Not entirely wishful thinking , just one of the main options Skate Canada will have, and maybe some of the thinking that might be behind it, if they go that way. Of course they have other options, and it's hard to know which way they'll go.
    It's true, I'd like to see P/I get a bit more exposure this year after being hampered by injury at CoR.( Skate Canada probably wishes they could send 4 to world's seeing how convincing P/I's transition to seniors has been.) But they won't get a sniff at World's unless someone else were ill or injured ,and I definitely don't wish for that. Meanwhile,some of their peers from World Juniors will be doing Euros and 4CC's, and becoming more widely known.

    Skate Canada has to ( or should be ) thinking strategically for all their teams, not just C/P.
    C/P are our champions now, and whether or not they do 4CC, that will carry some weight in perception at World's. If W/P (defending 4CC's champs) should skate lights out ,can anyone be sure that an international panel might not flip that tiny margin ? If the Shibs are there..they were knockouts at their GP assignments in very tough fields, and they've had all the intervening weeks to polish their programs..if C/Z go they also will have been polishing , but the Shibs would be more of a wild card, IMO.

    If V/M are there, it will be because they're ready. If they're even only 75-80 % ready, C/P cannot touch them or D/W at this stage of their careers. But they can't really be 100 % sure of the bronze. It may be likely, but not assured. If they should finish off the podium, would that eat away at their National Champion's prestige , going into World's? OTOH ,the farther away in time from Canadians..the more likely people are to forget what a small margin they won it by.

    Skate Canada has to take all this into consideration . Last year it turned out badly for R/H in spite of their higher national placement , since the international panel gave Allie and Michael the credit they were denied at Canadians, so...
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 01-24-2011 at 06:45 PM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    Anyway, first rant topic : Harvey/Gagnon -Their FD really surprised me.
    First off, I have not liked their costumes from the start of the season. I really object to things around the neck. A dancer/skater has to have a lovely long neck to get away with it, otherwise it's at best distracting, at worst ,makes the shoulders look high and the neck non-existant.Tarah has no problem keeping her shoulders down ,so this was not the worst, but it really does nothing for her .The rest of her costume just seemed a mish-mash , and the sound was not so good on most of the clips I'd seen, or the music was unfamiliar...so I couldn't make sense of it all. Then too, as others have pointed out, they didn't skate as well as they can early in the season.. Finally, some commentator (pj ?)said
    "depression -era music " and I understood..but the costume is still wrong. She needed a more "Grapes of Wrath"-ish cotton house dress (an artistic version, of course). What she has is more akin to a modern poor girl picking the best bits from the free box, or something..it's just not a good "fit" for the era. He could have done with a fewer patches and still got the message across ,..eh, that's minor detail...But..Ice dance judges have forgiven far worse costumes , so all my objections probably don't count for much with them , so let's set my bug-a-boos aside.

    I loved their program and the way they skated it. I know I'll rewatch it to savour some of the lovely bits in their choreography.There was so much to like . I simply adored their strength move, when she lifts him. Oh, I know we've seen this before , but instead of a big "TA-DA !" moment ,he inclines his head and gives this sweet ,coy look to the audience.I laughed out loud. Completely charming and a little bit cheeky after all the fuss that's been made over other couples doing similar moves. I can't understand how this program ( beautifully skated ) did not recieve better marks.

    *Intermission*
    They have received a level 1 one one of their lifts, that is why. I wish I could watch again their program to figure out what happened there, but there are no youtube links not even for the medal winning FD's, never mind for them.

  12. #102
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    herios...Yeah, I noticed that in the recap thread. Well, I've rewatched a couple of times,and I can't really see anything wrong. Nothing that sticks out, anyway.

    We're sort of in the same boat , I think..been watching 40 yrs ... gone out of the way to try to learn about the sport..but have never skated myself. I know I know quality when I see it , but can't always break down movements to their most basic elements ,and not always totally up on the ever-changing rules..*sigh*

    Guess that means I'll have to look at the protocols, rewatch and try to single out the particular lift ..knowing that I may still not be able to see the reason for the level ( and knowing that it may be a poor call ).Has anyone already done that ?( she said , hoping for help..)

    At any rate H/G will have funding and some good assignments next year, and they must be pleased with that...I just don't feel comfortable with that 10 point spread. Megan and Aaron have learned to have good poker faces over the years, but you could tell they thought something was wrong, in the kiss and cry, though (unlike some) they'd never make a show of it.

  13. #103
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Here I am talking to myself, again...

    So. The rotational lift...Well,if this was a court case, and someone asked me to be the judge, I'd have to recuse myself; but as a member of the jury..the case is not made.. If they told me one was a level 4 and one a 3 ( or even a very well executed 2 ), I might buy it. (I don't know all the requirements) But that one should be an 8 point lift with 1.40 GoE ,and the other a 1.5 lift with .50 GoE...( I'd be asking the judge for clarification ) Both are good lifts , both fast..on TV, hard to compare the ice coverage. R/H 's is a one arm lift (but she's holding on)..waist hold. Her change of position is pretty easy (just a change in leg position ), but graceful positions, and there's a reverse rotation.
    H/G..No reverse , but a tricky little entrance where she turns her back to him and gives a slight spring .He's holding her leg and she has the opposite arm reaching back to hold his shoulder ..with the other leg bent around his. As they continue to turn ( if anything gaining speed) she turns to face him, they end up in a dance hold with a complete change of leg posion for her ( different leg extended, the other bent to wrap around his leg from the inside )...I don't know if that makes it any easier to picture ..The change is quick and very smooth , no awkward transition.

    So I don't know any more than I did before , but this little exercise hasn't made me feel any better. That's a 7.4 point difference right there. Add that to the feeling that perhaps H/G should have been closer in the SD. These points may not matter to international judges at GP time, But within Canada people will be pointing to them and saying R/H are clearly better. Just annoys me.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 01-26-2011 at 03:32 AM.

  14. #104
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    You can't compare those two lifts. R/H did a reverse rotational lift, which is a "long" lift, and allowed to be a maximum of 12 seconds. H/G's lift was a rotational, which is a "short" lift, and can only be held for a maximum of 6 seconds. A level 4 reverse rotational lift has a base value of 8 points, and a rotational lift level 4 has a base value of 4 points. Two completely different categories of lifts. H/G opted for the "4 short lifts" option, and R/H did 2 short and 1 long lift, the other option. In a change of position rotational lift, everything in the position change must be different, so that if you you took a photo, you would see two completely different positions, arms, legs, body, everything. In a change of position rotational lift, you must also have minimum of 5 full rotations if you have a creative or unexpected entry, or 6 rotations if you don't. Very difficult, and very easy for something to go wrong. In R/H's RR lift, they choose the one arm option, wherethe boy must pick the girl up and put her down with both partners only using one arm, and achieve 2 rotations in each direction without any help from the other hand. Again, very difficult, as evidenced by the fact that they were the only team in the event to do one. But not comparable, as they are completely different categories of lifts.

  15. #105
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    You can't compare those two lifts. R/H did a reverse rotational lift, which is a "long" lift, and allowed to be a maximum of 12 seconds. H/G's lift was a rotational, which is a "short" lift, and can only be held for a maximum of 6 seconds. A level 4 reverse rotational lift has a base value of 8 points, and a rotational lift level 4 has a base value of 4 points. Two completely different categories of lifts. H/G opted for the "4 short lifts" option, and R/H did 2 short and 1 long lift, the other option. In a change of position rotational lift, everything in the position change must be different, so that if you you took a photo, you would see two completely different positions, arms, legs, body, everything. In a change of position rotational lift, you must also have minimum of 5 full rotations if you have a creative or unexpected entry, or 6 rotations if you don't. Very difficult, and very easy for something to go wrong. In R/H's RR lift, they choose the one arm option, wherethe boy must pick the girl up and put her down with both partners only using one arm, and achieve 2 rotations in each direction without any help from the other hand. Again, very difficult, as evidenced by the fact that they were the only team in the event to do one. But not comparable, as they are completely different categories of lifts.

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