01-28-2011, 12:23 AM
come on... just kidding... making a joke about how polite Canadians are.....
Originally Posted by callalily
01-28-2011, 12:30 AM
absolutely agree.... W/P are spending too much time on "beating" C/P .... while C/P are just going about their business.... continually improving, making mistakes and learning from them.... not stressing about the team just ahead in their own country .. but having an eye on all of the ones ahead... but also focusing on themselves.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
If W/P are not carefull P/I will take them over next season - or for that matter maybe R/H will as well....
01-28-2011, 02:31 AM
Constable , Costume Police
I don't think W/P are focused on "beating C/P"...I think they are focused on getting where they want to go..Everyone saw the improvement in them this year.
C/P have been very polite in their interviews and good for them...but they've hardly been tested, have they ? It's easy to stay polite when you're getting the best results you could hope for.And of course, it would be laughable for C/P to stress over the team just ahead of them at nationals, since that team has been V/M ,who will be ahead of them again next year provided they keep skating...they are not close competitors at all.
If P/I continue their current rate of improvement, it's quite possible they could surpass both W/P and C/P in the next year or so.
But Pogue, I thought the PR thing with the Lane article combined with other media attention pre-and-early season was worse, a) because it served as a sort of a pre-emptive strike..because b) in it's failure to give W/P more than occasional , " in passing " mention , even though they must have known the comparable progress of both , Skate Canada seemed complicit.
The a) bit wasn't a case of an athlete being asked to comment on their finish at what might be an emotional moment. While the nonchalance, if not disregard of Skate Canada was the kind of thing that might contribute to a skater's feeling of not having been treated well.
I seldom bother to watch the skater interviews, really. If the skater gives their real opinion in a given situation , anyone who disagrees will be up in arms. If they give the standard platitudes ,you just hear the same comments over and over and over. So, happily ,I miss a lot of these scandals..and besides it means less of Brenda Irving.
Last edited by colleen o'neill; 01-28-2011 at 02:37 AM.
01-28-2011, 10:05 AM
Originally Posted by colleen o'neill
Colleen , you are really . You must definitley be related to the WP camp. This was not about CP but about Weaver and yet you turn it around to be a rant against CP once again! CP have always been polite and respectful regardless if it is before or after a competition and to all skaters.
There have been many witnesses to Weaver"s repeated lack of sportsmanship and it began before she was with SB. Please do not start about the publicity CP received at the beginning of the season. They never cried poor me and the injury info was over a year and a half old and had never been publicised. Someone got wind of it and then approached their coach, who by the way, was also largely misquoted. There was very little publicity beside that. I would also like to remind you of the non stop publicity WP received for at least 8 months prior to the Olympics. CP did not, even though they were placed ahead of WP. CP camp did not cry fowl in any shape or form. Sorry, I must have missed your rants about the unfair advantage for WP or the supposed SC complicity.
You should be positively ecstatic now. WP received all the publicity and photos following CP s National win. Of course, I would not expect that you would raise the slightest eyebrow or rant about this media attention as you did about the supposed favortism CP received in the fall. What is it you said - ".... pre-emptive strike.. no mention in passing ....skate canada complicity...". But this is only fair now, isn"t it - it is all focusd on WP.
My feeling is the media looks for a story. You win some and you lose some. So why do you not try to drink some anti bias syrup and try to be a little less hateful.
Last edited by tangos; 01-28-2011 at 10:07 AM.
01-28-2011, 01:20 PM
THANK YOU Tangos... well said
01-28-2011, 01:28 PM
Constable , Costume Police
You know, I haven't been watching the papers for articles, hunting out interviews etc. etc.
So if C/P have been being ignored in the press or media, I'm unaware. But, if true, I think that would be horrible.I've seen examples of that kind of thing in the past ( CTV raving on and on about Elvis at Canadians when he wasn't even competing ...When L/H won they weren't even interviewed ..and there've been other cases over the years). I hate to see it when it happens. However, if they're both being given attention , it's what you would expect in the case of a close finish.
I'll come back to this , I'm off to watch Euro's ice dance...
01-28-2011, 06:15 PM
Sorry, but I'm going to agree a little with Colleen here. In the heat of the moment, when the camera is in the face of these skaters, and the results are so incredibly close almost every time, and always the same way, it's not hard to believe some would get frustrated as a first reaction and perhaps not use the right filters. There's a lot of emotion and passion at a moment like that, and every time the results are so close, I'm sure it builds even more. I'm willing to "cut a little slack". I do think there has been a lot of hype for C/P, and I do like them a lot, and W/P deserve to be treated at the same level. I really don't see the teams being any different at all for the last 2 seasons. Both work hard, both are improving, and it stinks there can be only one team in first place. That's the way it goes. I do think there is politics involved. If I remember the boards from last year, there were quite a few people who felt W/P "wuz robbed" of their chance to go to the Olympics and Worlds. If you took the pulse of the arena audience last week, the crowd was definitely with W/P. (It wasn't a home crowd for either team.) Many people felt that W/P should have been in front after the SD. And just as many people thought they won the FD. I personally would have put W/P ahead of C/P based on performances. And just once it would have been good to see W/P ahead. Who's right? Hard to say. It was 0.16 difference in the SD, and just a point and change overall. I think judges and SC just happen to give C/P the slight nod because they've been skating internationally more. Both W/P and C/P are great teams, and great people. There is no reason to "hate" either team, or any one person. The reality is that these teams are generally at the same level. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses. They have very different styles, and I personally prefer the more classical style and presentation of W/P, but last week proved again that both teams deserve the same fanfare. They will meet again at Worlds, and I hope both teams skate lights out. Can you imagine if Canada can finish with 3 teams in the top 10? It's been close between C/P and W/P internationally this year as well. And hopefully W/P take heart and hold on to the strides they've made, and come back even better again next year.
01-28-2011, 08:48 PM
Constable , Costume Police
If people want to see hate where it doesn't exist, I can't help that.
I have never ranted against C/P as people, criticised their behaviour or slagged their work ethic . Contrarily ,I've said repeatedly how talented and skilled I think they are.
I confess I have ranted against their coaches , who , though I think they have considerable strengths, also have some glaring weaknesses. For 2-3 yrs., I have felt they were not giving C/P ( specifically) and their students in general ,the help they needed to become better all-around skaters and to progress more quickly. Poor posture is epidemic among their students, which is very often compounded by careless grooming and poor costume design. That's my considered opinion. But even that isn't hate, either. If we see a big change in the posture and presentation among their students next year I'll be the first to applaud them.
My most heartfelt critiques have been directed at Skate Canada, because they have been in a position to stress to the press that we have 2 teams of very comparable abilities , and they certainly weren't even handed in that regard right up to the championships.
01-29-2011, 08:08 AM
I think we can all agree that any skater who's at the National Championships of any country has talent. Some more than others, yes--of course--but really, we should be applauding ALL of them for their hard work, and applauding their families for all the sacrifices they made to get them there. And perhaps--perhaps--Skate Canada could have backed both C/P and W/P a little more equally, up until the crowning of one over the other (I say "perhaps" because I, personally, don't think W/P really *are* the equals of C/P, but that's opinion on my part).
Originally Posted by colleen o'neill
However, once a champion is crowned, I think it only makes sense for the National federation to push for that one much harder than any of the others. While it *might* give the impression that a country is very strong in a particular discipline if the two top teams are virtually tied, I think it more likely gives the impression that the champion team is not actually that good--that everyone else is so closely nipping at its heels. It hurts the champion team, and it hurts the country itself.
If W/P are that great, they'll eventually show it and not be denied. I don't think it will happen--they might beat C/P in one phase of one competition, but I don't think they'll permanently overtake them anywhere. If they do, and truly merit it, then good for them--maybe that means Kaitlyn quit whining and got to work in the rink!
01-29-2011, 12:56 PM
Actually, Tessa and Scott are the #1 Canadian team. Behind them are 2 very solid teams that almost always finish very close to one another, at home and internationally. It makes sense for SC to continue to promote Tessa and Scott most of all, and C/P and W/P equally. I think both teams will continue to improve and push each other. C/P may have won, but only because Tessa and Scott were not able to be there, and the margin of victory was 0.16 in the SD, and a point and change overall.
01-29-2011, 01:28 PM
Yikes! The poor girl makes one comment and we all attack her. I was a little put off by it as well, but she was upset. Can't we cut the girl some slack? She took a huge risk, moving to another country and all, and I can see why she would be dissapointed, even though I think she has to learn how to hide her feelings when speaking to the media. Considering that she has represented herself well to the public in the past (re. the laughing incident from 2007 nationals, I've seen those performances many time over, and it looked to me like she was simply wincing at the potentially devistating accident that Lefevbre/Markov just narrowly avoided, NOT laughing), I think we're all blowing this a bit out of proportion. It's not like she's the first skater of ours to come across a tad bit cocky in an interview (cough cough, Patrick Chan, Scott Moir).
01-29-2011, 01:49 PM
I'm chuckling at the notion of moving to Canada being a "huge risk," but only because I think Canada is a beautiful country full of lovely people, and I imagine that having the chance to move there would be exciting. It would be like a dream for me, at least! Kaitlyn really only went "up north," not into a war-torn, dangerous country. She also gets to spend hour upon hour with that dreamy partner of hers. All in all, not too shabby! Plus she's on the National Team and gets funding, gets to work with legends of the sport in her coaches, gets to dance with that dreamy partner (oh wait, I already said that). . . . She has nothing to complain about. It's sport.
Originally Posted by skatingfan04
We all perceive things differently, and no one is right OR wrong. For instance, I've never viewed Scott Moir as cocky--just very confident. Patrick Chan? Head-slapping statements for sure--but those seem to come from talking too fast and not thinking things through before opening his mouth (in other words, I bet he cringes, privately, when he hears himself later, at least sometimes). Kaitlyn Weaver? Sense of entitlement shining through, and she knows exactly what she's saying through the tears and pouting. As for the L/M "laughing incident" (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't viewed that footage in years now), was it really a potentially dangerous accident that they avoided? I thought it was just a really screwed-up lift that completely fell apart, killing their chances for a medal immediately. In other words, the kiss of death for their placement, but not a danger to the safety of either of them.
01-29-2011, 02:53 PM
I didn't mean to say that moving to Canada was a risk in terms of safety or anything else, I just meant that she was taking a gamble on her career which could have hurt her and wasted valuable time if it didn't work out (fortunately, it did). I think that any skater who moves away from home is pretty brave. She picked up and moved her entire life to a new country at seventeen and ended up skating for that country and not for the one which she had representetd her entire carreer and probably felt very loyal to. Obviously moving to Canada was no great physical risk , and I would agree that spending the time with Andrew isn't exactly a deal breaker, but if someone had asked me to uproot my life when I was seventeen, I would have laughed in their faces. I don't care if she's an athlete or not, that had to be hard. She did all of that to further her career, and its obvious that she doesn't feel like her career is going the way she wants it to at the moment, so why shouldn't she be upset? It's no different than any other skater who is frustrated with their progress. Now, I'm not saying that whining to the media is the right way to handle this, but its not like she trashed Crone and Poirier straight out. All she really said was that she was disappointed with the result, and that she thinks that she and Andrew have a chance of beating C/P in any of the upcoming competitions. Is she wrong? And are we all forgetting that she and Andrew handeled themselves beautifully last year, when I think they should have had every right to be angry and disappointed?
Originally Posted by beabstress
As for the L/M thing, her head was way too close to the end of his blade for my liking, and it seemed like it could have ended badly to me, but I guess that's just my perception. I'm not a skater, so I can never really tell how dangerous these things are. Either way, it didn't seem like she was laughing to me.
Last edited by skatingfan04; 01-29-2011 at 02:59 PM.
01-29-2011, 05:57 PM
I know you didn't mean to, but when you make a comment like: "they improved their placement by seven places at World's..completely ignoring the fact that seven couples in front of them either retired or split their partnerships" it in fact does slag their work ethic a little bit because it's not true (their improvement wasn't due solely to retirement of those ahead of them like you suggested).
Originally Posted by colleen o'neill
Anyway, lets stop picking on Weaver now.
01-29-2011, 09:26 PM
Constable , Costume Police
Pogue..you're right about the placements , of course. I had forgotten. At the time we discussed all this before, I remember counting up all the couples that had vanished from the scene and remembered it was 7, or threabouts.But some of those couples were behind C/P ,I think, and C/P did better their placement.( Just not by the implied amount).
I saw there were new posts here ,and when I checked , they were not about the skating, but about " shame on Kaitlyn". So I was making a point off the top of my head ( not always the best plan) and I was restraining myself from mentioning some of the more annoying parts of that article ( like the throwing up ).Your point tempers my arguement, but doesn't much alter my overall opinion .
I never meant to imply that C/P had made no improvement between Olys and World's. Heck, I remember feeling they skated better, so why not the judges ?
So, I'm a bit abashed at having overstated the case even though it was inadvertant, because it was overstatement that prompted me to respond in the first place...particularly the charge that Kaitlyn's father was "booing C/P". I'm sure he was booing the marks, or the judges , not C/P personally..and haven't we all done that from time to time, if only from our living rooms ? And without it being our son or daughter on the losing end of a controversial decision ? No-one has a camera on us to catch our emotional responses. So to dredge that up seems a bit childish , if not malicious.
skatingfan..ITA ...and now, I remember..That was the laughing incident ? I read it much as you did , so I thought the reference was something else.
Yes, let's not pick on skaters.