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Mens LP

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Someone should tell Dimanno that her writing style is loud and crude. :rolleye:
heh. You are actually rather right. My opinion isn't a knee-jerk reaction to her harsh words for Sawyer, but I do find DiManno's writing to be overly dramatic, negative, and a little crude. Even in the articles where she is saying something positive about someone, her tone sounds condescending and sneering, as if she's daring someone to disagree with her. I don't even mean to bash her, either. Once upon a time, long ago, I found a piece by her that I agreed with, but I don't remember what it was about. As I said, it was a long time ago.

I don't know how she could possibly find Sawyer's LP "crude", and by extension, the taste of all those who gave him a standing ovation "crude" as well. It was full of joy and expression that wasn't contrived or forced. There were unique elements to his program that weren't obviously for the main intention of point-gathering. Is it possibly a "waste of a spot" in the sense that it's not an investment in a future contender? It's debatable. Younger skaters can learn a lot from their more experienced peers (such as not giving up on yourself), and there are more competitions than just Worlds to look forward to (e.g. 4CC). I don't like the calculated methodologies that Skate Canada has used in the past to determine who gets to go to big events (e.g. when Emanuel Sandhu got 2nd at Canadian Nationals when he was 18 but wasn't sent to the Olympics...because he was too young or because he didn't participate in the GP, or something like that. Yes, he may have used this too many times as his excuse for his nerves in subsequent years, but...) I believe that skaters should be assigned to events as they earn their spots. Shawn Sawyer earned his spot to Worlds this year.

Like others, I would like the third spot to be determined by 4CC. I like Joey, but I want Kevin Reynolds to be given another chance considering that he does normally have stronger performances and the third men's spot for Canada at this year's Worlds is partly due to him, correct me if I'm wrong.

All things considered, I do not know what point DiManno's article has. It is just useless complaining. Who would she rather give the two remaining spots to, after Chan? Whatever.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
heh. You are actually rather right. My opinion isn't a knee-jerk reaction to her harsh words for Sawyer, but I do find DiManno's writing to be overly dramatic, negative, and a little crude. Even in the articles where she is saying something positive about someone, her tone sounds condescending and sneering, as if she's daring someone to disagree with her. I don't even mean to bash her, either. Once upon a time, long ago, I found a piece by her that I agreed with, but I don't remember what it was about. As I said, it was a long time ago.

I don't know how she could possibly find Sawyer's LP "crude", and by extension, the taste of all those who gave him a standing ovation "crude" as well. It was full of joy and expression that wasn't contrived or forced. There were unique elements to his program that weren't obviously for the main intention of point-gathering. Is it possibly a "waste of a spot" in the sense that it's not an investment in a future contender? It's debatable. Younger skaters can learn a lot from their more experienced peers (such as not giving up on yourself), and there are more competitions than just Worlds to look forward to (e.g. 4CC). I don't like the calculated methodologies that Skate Canada has used in the past to determine who gets to go to big events (e.g. when Emanuel Sandhu got 2nd at Canadian Nationals when he was 18 but wasn't sent to the Olympics...because he was too young or because he didn't participate in the GP, or something like that. Yes, he may have used this too many times as his excuse for his nerves in subsequent years, but...) I believe that skaters should be assigned to events as they earn their spots. Shawn Sawyer earned his spot to Worlds this year.

Like others, I would like the third spot to be determined by 4CC. I like Joey, but I want Kevin Reynolds to be given another chance considering that he does normally have stronger performances and the third men's spot for Canada at this year's Worlds is partly due to him, correct me if I'm wrong.

All things considered, I do not know what point DiManno's article has. It is just useless complaining. Who would she rather give the two remaining spots to, after Chan? Whatever.

I agree - useless complaining. It was like she was insisting on finding something different to say about nationals and really forced the issue. Canada has arguably the best men's skater in the world and some other very nice talents. Not bad - especially for the year right after an Olympics when the country had two skating medals.

Talk about a mountain out of a mole hill. But especially, it was too bad that she chose the wrong guy to pick on.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
I agree - useless complaining. It was like she was insisting on finding something different to say about nationals and really forced the issue. Canada has arguably the best men's skater in the world and some other very nice talents. Not bad - especially for the year right after an Olympics when the country had two skating medals.

Talk about a mountain out of a mole hill. But especially, it was too bad that she chose the wrong guy to pick on.
No kidding! And not just a mole hill: she made an event that we should celebrate...into something to be grumpy about?

But I do want to give credit to DiManno over this paragraph, which I found when I re-read her article just now:

“When I said I was coming back, it was frowned upon,” Sawyer revealed, after staking claim to silver. “They thought I made a good decision to go. A lot of people did.”

Apart from providing an intriguing glimpse into the machinations of the Skate Canada politburo — an organization with a long history of big-footing athletes and promoting favourites over those who’ve earned their ranking on the ice — Sawyer’s success represents a double-edged sword: He may have had the skate of his life, but he’s not an athlete to build on and his Tokyo inclusion, while a nice personal story, is pretty much a waste in a year when Canada has qualified three spots for men at worlds.
And that's exactly the debate! If Skate Canada does not include Sawyer on the Worlds team this year, it's "playing favourites" for the sake of presumed future investments rather than giving the spot to a skater (Sawyer) who deserves it. I want skaters, no matter how old or young they are, to be given the passes to big competitions that they earned on the ice. Good on Rosie for pointing out this issue, at the least...

And to add, I don't get why it's a "waste" in the context of Canada having three spots. If Canada only had two spots, there is a stronger case for giving one spot to someone who has the highest likelihood of clinching a medal (i.e. Chan) and the other spot to a future investment. Canada having three spots means that we can do both of the above and give the third spot to the second-best skater...who has the potential to earn a second medal for Canada if he skates wonderfully.
 
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Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Thank you, goose! Great quality photos!

Does Chan always wear grey boots? Black boots will be so much better. Forais's and Russell's costumes are lady-like.:p Does anyone think that Reynolds face looks like Rachael Flatt's (not in this pic)?
 
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emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
thanks for the great videos, siberia82! and thanks for the great photos, goose!!!!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009

I e-mailed Ms. Dimanno and wrote the following response:

Dear Ms. DiManno,
I came across your column on a figure skating board I read regularly called Golden Skate. I am a figure skating fan from the U.S. (Washington state)

I write first to respectfully disagree with your premise.

1.) I think some would agree with this line: "Apart from providing an intriguing glimpse into the machinations of the Skate Canada politburo — an organization with a long history of big-footing athletes and promoting favourites over those who’ve earned their ranking on the ice." that Skate Canada does like to play political favorites. Some believe that giving Patrick Chan a 197 -- even for that fantastic program of his -- is an example of this. Some argue that Patrick Chan winning Skate Canada despite falling four times may also be an example of this. Finally many question why Skate Canada has deemed Crone and Poirier as its No. 1 team (of course while Virtue and Moir are out) over Weaver and Poje despite how either team does.

2.) But the connecting point is flawed: "Sawyer’s success represents a double-edged sword: He may have had the skate of his life, but he’s not an athlete to build on and his Tokyo inclusion, while a nice personal story, is pretty much a waste in a year when Canada has qualified three spots for men at worlds. First of all, if Shawn skates like that on Toyko, he could easily be in the top 10 maybe even sneak into the final group. I believe he (and Joey Russell) will play a "build on" role by keeping those three spots for 2012. Plus among skating fans in the U.S. Sawyer is respected for his beautiful artistry, his great spins and his willing to be creative. Skating fiends are THRILLED that Sawyer is going rather than Reynolds because he offers the full package, not just the jumps. And I'm sorry, how can you call a performance where he did EIGHT triples a waste? That's a good night for most male skaters!

3.) You say: "Sawyer is a throw-back skater. His Alice in Wonderland routine went over huge with the Memorial Centre audience. That’s because it is loud, even crude — and donning a giant Mad Hatter lid afterwards didn’t help — a show number rather than the stuff of serious competition." Shawn is a big breath of fresh air among skating enthusiasts because he doesn't just do the usual COP-friendly but programs everyone else does. It takes great skill to do a program like Shawn's. I don't think I could jump eight times up in the air and run around while still staying in character. Yes figure skating is a sport, but it's also an art. And during his skate Shawn managed to show both. Here's what popular figure skating blogger Aaron Harris stated about Sawyer before the championships: "The only skate close to Chan artistically is Shawn Sawyer. Armed with an amazingly choreographed free skate to "Alice in Wonderland," Shawn continues to struggle with consistency. If he can get his jumps in order he could contend with the best."

I complain sometimes that Canadian figure skating analysts tend to be too apologetic when it comes to their own skaters, I think you've gone too much in the other direction. Shawn Sawyer should not be seen as a hopeless case. There are so many examples of U.S. skaters who made a comeback after a few down years (Todd Eldredge and Alissa Czisny) I am never quick to say that one is has-been or otherwise.

Finally, I would like to point out that you may have an factual error in your column. You say:
"Yeah, yeah, that jumping savant Nam Nguyen is out there, Mini-Me Showman. But he’s 12 years old and won’t even be age-eligible for Sochi, assuming the kid doesn’t flame out by then."

According to Nam's website his birthday is May 20, 1998. The current ISU rules (Rule 108, Section 2a) states : In ISU Senior Championships and the Olympic Winter Games only Skaters may compete who have reached at least the age of fifteen (15) before July 1st preceding these Events.

If the birthday is correct (and of course I do understand that not everything on the Internet is inaccurate) he would turn 15 on May 20, 2013. That would be before the July 1 preceding the 2014 Sochi Olympics. So that would qualify him to enter the Olympics. Not only that, Nam also would have a shot at break Dick Button (U.S. 1948 Olympic Gold Medalist) record as young Olympic champion (18).

Thank you for reading my thoughts.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Where is your base?
In his skating of course. Where else.
But skaters who have Patrick Chan's repertoire are going to win no matter you like it or not.:)
True! With his repertoire "I-fell-4-times" and scores of the winner, nothing else matter, including the fact that TV companies stopped buying broadcasting rights because with the current judging system people don't understand what is going on and they don't want to watch the FS stuff. Even the Swiss Bern with its fridge-icerink was the only one who agreed to accept Europeans. Surely, nothing of this matter!
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
^^^^^^^^^ :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

At a time when Patrick Chan has just accomplished the amazing feat of flawlessly performing a rousing program of unprecedented technical prowess, when he has just generated a buzz beyond the skating world to rekindle the enthusiasm of casual and even non fans of skating, when he has just inspired countless current and future skaters and fans, when the sport of skating is again gaining attention with a potential superstar and is infused with a new energy in anticipation of exciting competition as a challenge notice has just been served to all the talented top men, Patrick Chan is accused of being the symbol of all that is wrong with skating and of single handedly bringing down the sport?!!!!!!!!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Imagine spewing this kind of crap at Takahashi right after his WC win.

Patrick Chan is here and he has made history. Deal with it.

Attempts to turn reality into its opposite are futile, pathetic and laughable.

Thanks for the laughs!
 
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siberia82

Addicted to Canadian men's singles skating
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Country
Canada

Alvyne

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Country
Canada
I find it hilarious how Patrick Chan "haters" are trying to diminish what he accomplished at Canadians. I've read everything, from "he's not musical enough and doesn't interpret every beat of the music through his facial expressions" to "he won't be able to repeat this at Worlds", and bringing back the fact that he won Skate Canada with falls.

I am really anxious to see how this performance will affect the other skaters, what strategy they will use to try to beat him.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
:)I had to break off to walk my dogs, but I wanted to add that DiManno's pretty blind if she sees no promise beyond Patrick. Sure , no one else is going to be Patrick , but we have a number of skaters coming up with their own unique set of skills and talents who definitely will be worthy representatives.

If Shawn delivers that well at world's he should have a creditable finish.

Kevin has made great strides..he just needs to keep working as he has been, and maybe involve a sports psychologist as well. ( I just feel there may be a weakness in JM's coaching that leaves her skaters vulnerable on the mental / emotional front..)

There's a lot of excellence in Joey's skating..I don't know how far he can progress with his jumps..but I certainly wouldn't write him off after he's just made enough progress to win a national medal.

Elladj seems to be on his way back ( my goodness, his jumps can be beautiful)..he's musical and I don't think we've had a skater who can command the ice while making such a warm connection with the audience since Kurt.

Liam made a great transition. He's musical in a different way than Elladj...his jumps were fine and I love his feet..

Jeremy is injured but he had great programs this year,and once healed and jumping , is a very expressive skater..

Ian Martinez was skating injured , so this competition was not really representative of his abilities.

Ronald Lam showed a lot of potential...just needs to keep going and maybe an upgrade to his programs and costumes.

Makes you wonder what the woman was smoking...

Edit : Oops! I forgot Rogozine..but I just forgot him while typing.. I didn't disregard him..;)..He has a lot of promise..just needs to project more character. A good choreographer can start that process, no question.

I love all of your thoughts on this final flight - it really was so, so exciting. Thanks again Canadian men for a very memorable championship!!!!!!!

ETA oops - final flight+
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Photo of the week: Shawn Sawyer's moment of delirium :)

Also one of Patrick with his lion :love: among The week's most amusing.

This is my second favorite on ice gift Patrick's ever received. Nothing beats the Belief balloon at the Olympics Gala. The Universe had the coolest way of sending him the message.

I also loved the way he, at K&C after SP at GPF, put his arm around the big stuffed bear with a pink ribon and patted her head. I LOL at him getting "the girl" he was trying to impress in Take Five!
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I think the commentary on that picture of Shawn was pretty rude.

These are clueless people who think it's cool to make fun of people. In a way that's their job. The joke is on them when they ridicule Shawn's Mad Hat which is exactly what it's supposed to be. The description of Patrick's expression is so off too as they only know the usual cliches.

I just enjoy the pictures as they are amusing.

eta Maybe we should do our own captioning. :biggrin:
 
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sunny0760

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
1.) I think some would agree with this line: "Apart from providing an intriguing glimpse into the machinations of the Skate Canada politburo — an organization with a long history of big-footing athletes and promoting favourites over those who’ve earned their ranking on the ice." that Skate Canada does like to play political favorites. Some believe that giving Patrick Chan a 197 -- even for that fantastic program of his -- is an example of this. Some argue that Patrick Chan winning Skate Canada despite falling four times may also be an example of this. Finally many question why Skate Canada has deemed Crone and Poirier as its No. 1 team (of course while Virtue and Moir are out) over Weaver and Poje despite how either team does.

I don't oppose your entire point in your email, Mrs. P. With your defending Shawn Sawyer ardently, I have no problem. No defending Reynolds from you even if DiManno wrote about him longer with more harsh words. Well, everyone has their favorites.:)

I just wonder why you have to bring Chan's score 197 and 4 falls at SC here. You may agree with 'some' you say? Is it relevant when you try to reason why Sawyer is a great skater and a good choice for worlds?

Sorry I have not seen Sawyer's performances at 2011 Nats (I will watch... I am sure he was great) but have been seeing Chan's over and over. If anyone argues that Chan's score was given because he is always a political favorite and says again the muliple falls in the past, well, I feel a little bothered. Now it seems so trivial.

I don't understand what DiManno means by mentioning 'promoting favourites over those who’ve earned their ranking on the ice.' Maybe my lack of English.;) It seems like I don't resent her column as much as some people would... I have definitely read more biased, absurd articles than this. Don't mean DiManno's is well written.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
the amazing feat of flawlessly performing a rousing program
:rofl:
The pashionless frigid program stirs you up? Time for the party, man! :party2:

You are right in one thing- Pat is the best direct product of the current judging system and everything what is wrong with it. The more people talk about it, including on forums, the more chances we have that FS will get its artistism, real beaury + all tech stuff back. I do hope for the best.:thumbsup:
 
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